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You can etransfer to Henry Lam at chesstalkforum at gmail dot com
Transfér à Henry Lam à chesstalkforum@gmail.com
Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Organizers/TD's
Hi Steve :
Well said.
The TLDO in the past no. of years has been Toronto's premier tournament ( until the PwC Toronto Open this spring ). I believe it last drew almost 140 players, which is quite phenomenal, given the numbers coming out usually over the last no. of years to other Toronto tournaments. Bryan does a good job and earns the modest fee he charges.
I believe Organizers/TD's deserve to be paid for their effort. But the pay is certainly modest if there is a fee, and many organizers just volunteer their time to organize/TD. We have too few organizers in Canada. We need to develop more, respect their contribution, pay them reasonably, and yes, demand that within the confines of their tournament limitations, they establish good playing standards , and learn to do advertising and media relations.
Re: Toronto Labour Day Open - Pre-registered List??
Hi Egis:
Unfortunately, e-mails to Bryan, in my experience, often go unanswered. I'd call, but I'll see him tomorrow night at the Scarborough CC AGM, so I'll check then - though by then it will be pretty late for posting a list - the tournament would be starting in 2 days. Part of the reason for posting a list is to encourage others to come out and play, when they see friends on the list - not much advertising with a list posted the day before the tournament.
As someone who has attended several of Bryan's tournaments and is a fellow member of Scarborough Chess Club, I agree completely with Steve's comments. The idea that local TD's are a bunch of 'profiteers' only interested in exploiting chess players is beneath contempt. Someone wanting to make money at chess would be better advised to go to a downtown park and challenge passers-by to 'speed chess for beanos' (as the regulars at the Toronto Chess Club back in the 70's would have said).
I'd call, but I'll see him tomorrow night at the Scarborough CC AGM, so I'll check then - though by then it will be pretty late for posting a list - the tournament would be starting in 2 days.
Bob
Hi Bob,
I always used to like the Scarborough Chess Club AGM. We gave out the trophies and elected our officers. I recall I used to chair them from the stage at the club on Macey Ave. They weren't short, either. I'd talk and talk until I thought everyone had fallen asleep.
Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Pre-Registration List Coming
I spoke with Bryan Lamb at the Scarborough CC AGM tonight, and he said he would e-mail me the pre-registration list to post - didn't specify exactly when he'd get to it, but apparently it will be coming - he said he had well over 100 pre-registrations, though that included notice but no payment players. He said he optimistically hoped to get to 150 players this year. We'll see how good a predictor he is.
i have noticed in past years that some organizers based prize funds consistently on a number of players that did not consistently materialize. I disagree with this practice and try as much as possible to be optimistic but ALSO realistic. those who play in the tournaments I organize will observe that it is often the case that the actual prize funds are quite close to the advertised based on projections, and in some cases it comes out actually HIGHER.
if Mr. Mckoy played in tournaments I organize he would be aware that i do post statements of expenses.
Mr. Brown's observation "it is on the players to show up to increase their prize fund' is true REGARDLESS of the other point he was attempting to make.
It also assumes that a tournament organizer decides that he wants to do this for FREE.
I used to direct tournaments for free, and these days i direct tournaments for relatively modest sums which most of the time work out to about $5 per hour assuming a three day 16-hour per day event. Last time I checked the minimum wage was a fair bit higher than that. You find me anyone in this country who is prepared to replace what I am doing, namely running every major event in Toronto now, and also do it for FREE, while they have a regular job and two young kids at home.
Bryan Lamb (Organizer of Most Toronto Chess Tournaments) doesn't follow chesstalk because he is only keen on
his personal gain and interest! He does not post pre-registered list not until a day before the tournament and does not care at all!
As long as he can recover all his tournament expenses and his guaranteed tournament's organizer and director fees of his discretion, aside from additional sales gained from bottled spring waters at ridiculous
price of $1.00 or more and other food items similarly priced to name a few, He will always be the biggest winner of his self-organized tournaments! He can always play around at his easy to manipulate sectional prize funds anyways.
Had any participants have the courage to question the tournament expenses,
organizer's and director's fees and the total collected entries fees? I think, these figures are very important information you participants need to understand if paying that entry fee is worth that price or will keep you or
pursue you as participants from coming back to his tournament again.
Did you notice that flyer's details?
How come Senior and junior players have discounts? Will it make sense too, that if they win a prize,
it should be discounted too?
Regular players pay adult and similar entry fees, how come the distribution of prizes in the sectional categories
are lower in the lower sections?
Also, Toronto Labour Day had been run long enough that the TD or TO (Tournament Organizer) should have provided
all the chess equipments for his tournaments, but until now, participants still have to bring their own chess
equipments?
The last but not the least, the tournament results and distributed prizes to winners will take at least two weeks
before they will be publish perhaps avoiding early potential complaints or scrituny or whatsoever from the participants?
Or, perhaps if anyone ever bother to ask, it will never be publish at all! It is the responsibility of the organizer to publish this
information ASAP! He just disappeared from the limelight!
Here are some of my observations, maybe you want to add more?
One thing for sure that I have never heard of a positive comments and great appreciation regarding his chess tournaments! Good attendance
to be proud of but other than that, NOTHING!
Think about your three days in the tournament that will be wasted if you did not perform well before going to school or work Pals!
These reflect, True capitalism long before it started!
I guess I will have to say something here. Hopefully Mr McKoy has the mental faculties to follow the explanations.
1. What does the statement "Person X does not follow chess talk because he is only keen on his personal gain and interest" even MEAN? 'Twould seem the case that it is in fact TOWARDS my own interest to follow chesstalk particularly if there are individuals like Mr. McKoy around with a little too much time on their hands.
2. the tournament director fee that I received for years running the Labour Day tournament with Randy Moysoski as organizer was $1 per player. HE set that. The tournament director fee i receive for directing tournaments at Hart House, organized by Alex Ferreira, more or less amounts to $2 per player. THEY set that fee, not me. the fee that Brian Fiedler paid me to direct the Toronto open I GRUDGINGLY accepted as it was more than I would have directed the event for, but he insisted.
If you must know, I would quote a standard fee of $50 per round these days for a regular event. it doesn't vary from one event to the next.
3. if Mr. McKoy wants to complain about the fact that water and snacks are provided as a service to players in the tournament and that items are $1.00 perhaps Mr. McKoy should be informed that buying chocolate bars in large boxes costs over 50 cents per item and that you will NEVER find items, including bottled water, selling for less than $1.00 in ANY vending machine out there. if you don't like the service that is provided or the price, bring your own water or snacks. it's that simple. the prices are entirely reasonable in comparison to any other occasion where one might purchase items of this type on an individual basis. perhaps Mr. McKoy has been living on the moon for the last decade.
4. "He will always be the biggest winner at his events".
I will state categorically that up until now the first prize of ANY event I have directed has ALWAYS been higher than any amount I may have taken in.
the biggest winner, Mr. McKoy, from what I do is the Toronto Chess Community.
5. Suggesting that I somehow manipulate class prizes to suit how much I want to make running a tournament is not only ridiculous but scandalous. the class prizes that I award are based on what i have advertised in combination with how many players are playing in that section, as anyone who pays attention to that kind of stuff in my tournaments would observe.
6. if a participant wants to question the tournament finances they may consult the financial statement I post at the tournament at EVERY tournament, which breaks down the entry fee amounts and also explains WHERE the money above the prize fund goes. you want to know how much i make to run the event, it says so clearly on the statement I post in full view of the players. have you ever been to a tournament I have run recently Mr McKoy? or are you just making up stuff to insinuate that is simply incorrect?
7. if you think the entry fees are too high there is a simple answer: REDUCE the entry fees. Of course, this will reduce the prize fund a GREATER amount in proportion, becuase if i charge lower entry fees i will require a GREATER percentage of the tournament monies to cover the expenses of the event. the higher the entry fee is, the easier it is to return a greater percentage.
I return 70% of the entries. this is a toronto tournament standard that goes back further than when I started doing most of the directing and in fact it is a GTCL rule that tournaments may not go below this.
Not only this, but for more than a decade the Adult entry fee for Toronto events was $60.00. the decade I am talking about is 1990-2000 but in fact this standard entry fee was in effect prior to 1990. The first time a toronto event hit $70 as an entry fee was I believe the 2001 Toronto open at the Primrose hotel (Mark Dutton directing, which drew about 180 players) however for several years after that, MOST events had a $60 adult entry.
recently, I raised Toronto's premier regular event, the Labor Day Tournament entry fee, to $70 FINALLY after more than 15 years at $60.00. This reflects that recently the cost of the site rental has increased. this year I raised it to $75 but I am offering a discount to play in Labour Day and Thanksgiving, so if you play in both events you still get them for last year's fee. this year's increase reflects the fact that again we are paying a little more to rent the site.
8. Junior, Senior, Women, etc. discounts are standard things in Toronto events going back before I started playing in them which is nearly 25 years ago. i didn't invent this policy, I just follow the tradition. Brian Fiedler broke with it for the PWC Toronto Open, and other special tournaments such as Mark Dutton's Summer international nearly a decade ago, did not have discounts. that's fine. But regular events have still kept this policy including the events Mark Dutton ran.
Perhaps if you successfully lobby the government to establish pay equity for women, people under the age of 18 and seniors as compared to working adults, then there would be no justification for the discounts.
9. Toronto tournaments have NEVER had the funds to buy 100 chess clocks and 100 sets of pieces. that would cost approximately $8,000 dollars, and would be a nightmare for a tournament director to keep track of. if I had 100 clocks I'll bet you that at the end of the tournament 5 are going to be missing. Mr. NcKoy, I'll provide 100 clocks for the tournament if you will buy them for me. I can't afford it. On the other hand, many/most chess players ACTUALLY HAVE THEIR OWN PIECES AND CLOCK. they can bring it and keep track of one set and clock much more easily than the TD can keep track of 100 of them.
Mr. McKoy, perhaps I can give you 60 bucks to buy yourself a chess clock to save you the 8 hours you'd need to work at McDonalds to save the money to do it yourself. You want to complain about the cost of owning a chess clock which is about the same as the entry fee to one or two tournaments? Get a job.
10. At last, a valid point. The winners of the prizes for 2009 Labour Day event will be posted on Chess Talk after the completion of the event for Mr. McKoy's particular scrutiny. I hope Mr. McKoy has soem things to say further after that because I would LOVE the opportunity to respond to more of his diatribes, it's kind of fun actually.
Because I can't go over 10000 characters the remainder of my reply will be appended later.
Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Pre-registered List?
To finish my commentary:
Lastly, just to repeat this quote by Mr. McKoy:
"One thing for sure that I have never heard of a positive comments and great appreciation regarding his chess tournaments! Good attendance
to be proud of but other than that, NOTHING! "
Let me explain why you never hear positive comments. it is because YOU ARE NOT THE ONE DIRECTING THE TOURNAMENTS. I am doing it, and people reserve their positive comments for ME. being modest about what I do, I don't go around trumpeting myself as a great tournament director, nor do I look for any opportunities to publish positive things that people say about what I do. I prefer to let people make their own judgements rather than try to convince them that I'm the best TD since sliced bread. In fact if I get this type of reputation no one will ever want to replace me and I'll be stuck doing this forever!!
Why don't you look at the comments about your post? because from what I can tell there is NOT A SINGLE POSITIVE COMMENT about the entire piece of crap that you spewed out there. however I welcome you to attempt it again, and I will answer each and every point you attempt to make.
Obviously, you must feel ashamed of what you have written or you wouldn't feel it was necessary to hide who you are. If you thought for one second that you would get much support for your opinions you wouldn't be ashamed to identify yourself. The fact that you did this anonymously proves that YOU DO BELIEVE that the majority of chess players out there WILL disagree with you and think lowly of you if they knew who you were. I am not ashamed to attach my name to what I have written here nor am I ashamed of the work I have done for the Toronto Chess Community over the last 10 years. There may be better tournament directors out there in this country, but why don't you ask yourself why I am running every tournament? Do you think I do it to make money?
I run these tournaments as a service to the Toronto Chess Community, as a service to the Ontario Chess Association and as a service to the Chess Federation of Canada. I run these tournaments because I like to play chess and I know many other people like to play chess, and I have an idea of what could happen to the Toronto Chess Scene and more broadly, if I were to stop doing this. I would not want that to happen because I CARE about the Toronto Chess Community and not my own interest as you seem to short sightedly think is the case. If I was in this for money I would be doing something else instead. Anyone who knows me well, and many players do because I have been in the Toronto Chess Scene for 25 years almost, knows that money is the last thing on my list of motivating factors.
I DARE you to identify yourself publicly on this forum. What was that part you wrote suggesting that I try to hide information to avoid scrutiny? What a hypocrite you are.
the biggest winner, Mr. McKoy, from what I do is the Toronto Chess Community.
Actually the whole Ontario chess community benefits from what you do and we appreciate it (or at least most of us do). Thanks, Bryan for stepping up and making these well directed and organized tournaments happen.
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