Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Much bigger words... I am so scared, Hebert!
You don't want to apologize. Actually I didn't hope.
You doesn't respect other players so you are not suppose to be respected also.
You have big advantage : you live here, on this site, I only visit once in a while.
So I follow good advise: don't argue with an idiot. It's about you, Hebert.

Comrade Plotkin,

At least try to put a little wit and class in your name calling. If you can.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Typical cheap tactics from a man who will stoop to anything to make himself look good and others look bad.

You grossly overestimate my modest capabilities. How could I possibly make you look worse than you already have ?

[William Yuan]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Seeing how minimal expectations from many players are (room, sets and clocks...), is a sure way to get "top notch" organizers and improved conditions in the future...

Hi Jean，

I traveled many place to see how good chess culture and environment are over there. However, in Toronto, the reason from the cost, you can not easily to rent a nice space to run a chess tournament. That's why chess players' expectation for the tournaments getting lower lower here. That's why it is good for Toronto players that Yuanling runs a the Chess In the Library program totally free.

So, when the Toronto nearby players played the chess tournament in Guelph or Kitchener, they will think it's very good. Like a poor man suddenly got a ten dollars bill, that happiness can be felt by a rich man.

Congratulations for your win this year Canadian Chess Champion.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

So, when the Toronto nearby players played the chess tournament in Guelph or Kitchener, they will think it's very good. Like a poor man suddenly got a ten dollars bill, that happiness can be felt by a rich man.

Hi William,

I get your excellent point! But tell me something. Even though the poor man gets a moment of happiness with his ten dollar bill, doesn't he realize that he is still poor ? :)

Bravo! again to Yuanling. Great example.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Hi Jean，

I traveled many place to see how good chess culture and environment are over there. However, in Toronto, the reason from the cost, you can not easily to rent a nice space to run a chess tournament. That's why chess players' expectation for the tournaments getting lower lower here. That's why it is good for Toronto players that Yuanling runs a the Chess In the Library program totally free.

So, when the Toronto nearby players played the chess tournament in Guelph or Kitchener, they will think it's very good. Like a poor man suddenly got a ten dollars bill, that happiness can be felt by a rich man.

Congratulations for your win this year Canadian Chess Champion.

Good example except that players from Canada play lots of other places as well, they don't just play in Toronto, they are not always 'poverty stricken' chess players.

at my estimation least 3/4 of the players on the list have played internationally including the USA as well as having played in other provinces - we keep getting reports on chesstalk that this Canadian player or that Canadian player is playing in this or that international tournament and of course Mark Bluvstein has large international experience

I think Viktor Plotkin has obviously played in international tournaments (as Jean Hebert seemed to sarcastically underline when he called him Comrade Plotkin), Ron Livshits certainly has and has played in Canadian closed events where it was a serious round robin against the very top players in Canada only

chess is an international game, not just a Yonge and Bloor thing

[William Yuan]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Good example except that players from Canada play lots of other places as well, they don't just play in Toronto, they are not always 'poverty stricken' chess players.

at my estimation least 3/4 of the players on the list have played internationally including the USA as well as having played in other provinces - we keep getting reports on chesstalk that this Canadian player or that Canadian player is playing in this or that international tournament and of course Mark Bluvstein has large international experience

I think Viktor Plotkin has obviously played in international tournaments (as Jean Hebert seemed to sarcastically underline when he called him Comrade Plotkin), Ron Livshits certainly has and has played in Canadian closed events where it was a serious round robin against the very top players in Canada only

chess is an international game, not just a Yonge and Bloor thing

Viktor and Ron for sure are experienced players and travelling lots of place, they for sure knew how good chess tournament look like. They just have different standard with IM Jean what the bottom of line will be able to call "good tournament". They seems to easily satisfy the Guelph's tournament but Jean doesn't.

[William Yuan]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Hi William,

I get your excellent point! But tell me something. Even though the poor man gets a moment of happiness with his ten dollar bill, doesn't he realize that he is still poor ? :)

Bravo! again to Yuanling. Great example.

Hi Jean,

When Yuanling growing her chess skills, I need find more tournaments to let her practice. I simply can't find the good chess tournament for her. Don't mentioned norm chance, even for a 9 rounds fide rated tournament is a big dream in our living city which is an international biggest metropolis in Canada. For this view from chess, we are very poor. When GTCL runs a Toronto Closed every year, due to the rent hours in a community center, GTCL cann't maintain the fide time control to run a fide rated tournament. But it seems we find a ten dollars bill. We need it and pick it, but we indeed still "poor".

That's why we pretty satisfy other city's chess tournament like the ones in Guelph and Kitchener, even we need drive for one or two hours to be over there .

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Hi Jean,

When Yuanling growing her chess skills, I need find more tournaments to let her practice. I simply can't find the good chess tournament for her. Don't mentioned norm chance, even for a 9 rounds fide rated tournament is a big dream in our living city which is an international biggest metropolis in Canada. For this view from chess, we are very poor. When GTCL runs a Toronto Closed every year, due to the rent hours in a community center, GTCL cann't maintain the fide time control to run a fide rated tournament. But it seems we find a ten dollars bill. We need it and pick it, but we indeed still "poor".

That's why we pretty satisfy other city's chess tournament like the ones in Guelph and Kitchener, even we need drive for one or two hours to be over there .

Well William I don't think you have to look very far to see who is responsible for this, its the Toronto players. Back in the early 90's when I got back into tournament chess after university, there was a certain great organizer in Toronto. Unfortunately he got tired and stressed out being beaten up by overly demanding irresponsible playes (a minority but still a presence) and the hotels he used got tired of their facilities being beaten up and a mess being made. Specifically the Primrose Hotel and the Hilton on University Avenue. Once the organizer quit and chess players became unwelcome in these hotels, that was it for the Toronto scene. Instead of halls that could hold
150 or more players, where last minute entries were always welcome, we ended up with the small space that Mark Dutton or Chess and Math could make available at Bayview, with a much diminished capacity, where last minute entry was not possible because it filled up fast. You can't ask players to keep on playing when they can't all fit into the hall. Labour Day on Overlea was the one exception to this. Now of course Bayview is no longer available and chess moves from bar to bar for blitz only. When a hall was located finally at Tartu it immediately became apparent that attempting to max the prize fund by paying rent of $100/day was not going to secure that location either. After something like 15 years the new bright spot is the new PWC Toronto Open playing site. Lets hope it lasts.

I guess someone could try to blame the organizer that quit or the hotels for not wanting to put up with stuff. However, there are no organizers obligated to do anything except for event by event that they promise to hold, there is no one that holds a seat in the GTCL that could not resign whenever they feel they want to. Nobody is obligated to do anything for the chess community.

[John Brown]

Re: GTCL players don't support their own events.

Yes in the 80"s and 90's the key tournaments in Toronto were the Toronto Open usually Easter weekend, The Labour Day Open and the Thanksgiving Open.

But they were not always well attended by GTCL players and yes the hotels got tired of the street people stopping in saying they were in the tournament and then trashing the places or sleeping in the stair wells the list goes on.
Not to mention that some of the chess players would also not clean up after their games and leave garbage at tables. I'm glad that food has been pretty well banned from chess tables at most sites. It was always disturbing when you were to think of a move and your opponent decided to take out an apple and start crunching away or bring a sub and drip it all over the table. Oh those were the days.

The GTCL players still don't support the Labour Day. What ever happened to their Grand Prix Prizes you never hear about them but they always seem to have winners. But maybe it is not going anymore. I have no idea.

You'd think that every junior in Toronto who wants to play chess whether amateur or for a cash prize would be out for the last tournament before school? But it never happens. Why I have no idea on that either.

Maybe Chess in the Library should have a road trip this Saturday to Macedonian Site and let the juniors experience a day at a Chess tournament so they can see what a tournament looks like. It may show them what the Chess in Library programs are doing to create the up and coming stars of the next big Toronto tournaments.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Let's not completely blame the players. When the Harris government won the provincial election in 1992, I think it was, renting space for clubs in schools became prohibitive. The cost was high. I used to watch the Scarborough club go from one place to the next and as far as I know the membership dropped drastically.

I read the Liberals have since dropped the rental rate quite a bit.

We had a nice deal worked out with the local politicians back in the 70's. They gave us our playing room free. In exchange, membership was open to anyone in the community and they could advertise us in the local newspaper as a service club. We met our objectives. Playing space, open to the public and advertisement. They treated us well back then. Players used to come out to the club.

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Montreal and Toronto used to have good chess space available (for free or nominal rates) in office buildings.

For example - the MacDonald Block on Bay St. (Toronto) was the site of numerous events in the 1970's and 1980's. Well located, and served its purpose well.

The CBC/Radio-Canada building in Montreal was also the site of many events. We used a huge cafeteria which was open 24 hours a day - so there was no time limit of when to get out, and there was always food and drink available.

But even prior to 9/11, there were questions about security in such buildings, and the general public had less and less access. The last event I remember at the CBC - everyone had to sign in and out, get an special pass, etc.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

The CBC/Radio-Canada building in Montreal was also the site of many events. We used a huge cafeteria which was open 24 hours a day - so there was no time limit of when to get out, and there was always food and drink available.

There was another club in Toronto I forgot about. They had a club in the cafeteria of the Consumers Gas Building at Victoria Park and Consumers Road. I'm pretty sure they got that free. I never attended that club but knew several of the players. I assume it just stopped but I don't how or why. I worked in that building and never attended the club. I went to the Scarborough Chess Club.

[Garvin Nunes]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

A bare bone event with tables, sets and clocks... with no media coverage, no demo boards and thus no spectators, no signs or posters anywhere, no money but high entry fees, no internet presence to speak of, no games available after each round, no tables of results, no one taking pictures, no press releases or even a report to famous chess websites such as Chessbase.com, etc., etc., a "top notch" tournament ?? I am scared of what you would call a "bad" tournament! :)

Jean,

I was wondering if you would be willing to go out and meet local business leaders in the search for sponsors for the next Canadian closed.

Also, would you be willing to create posters and ads and then help put them up in the run up to the event?

Let's cut to the chase here and form a team that will agree to do these things right now.

[Kerry Liles]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Jean,

I was wondering if you would be willing to go out and meet local business leaders in the search for sponsors for the next Canadian closed.

Also, would you be willing to create posters and ads and then help put them up in the run up to the event?

Let's cut to the chase here and form a team that will agree to do these things right now.

Maybe players in the Closed should bring their own sets and clocks too?

I don't think the tasks you mention should be done by the players (with the possible exception of being available for interviews etc). Availability of the players for interviews (etc) would depend a lot on the location of the event - I doubt too many of the players in the Closed would be able to arrive (say) weeks before the event to promote the event, but some of the players might be able to do something in the way of promotion.

The burden is squarely on the CFC and the organizers to DO A GOOD JOB. I think we all know the difference between a GOOD JOB, a GREAT JOB and a hastily organized LAST MINUTE JOB. The CFC obviously has to set *minimum* acceptable standards for the Closed, the Open and any other "national level" tournaments. The CFC then has to make damn sure they award the event to people who can clearly demonstrate the ability to do a GREAT JOB.

In this case, the CFC erred in allowing the event to proceed without proper preparation (and without proper definition of the parameters). If the CFC ponied up some money for such events that might further the cause. If the CFC promoted chess to the general public (in lots of different ways) that would further the cause. I haven't seen the CFC do too many of these things in many years.

[Steve Douglas]

Re: Few personal notes about Canadian Closed

Kerry Liles said a whole bunch of things that made sense. Go back and read his post....

You have been infected by a common sense virus--which unfortunately is not spread via a simple handshake. Tragically it is rarely spread in the chess community at all.

Shame on you for trying to spread it here :-)

Steve