COVID-19 ... how we cope :)

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  • Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post

    Oh, we can easily see who is and who is not "brainwashed" here alright. We just disagree about who it is. Science is not infallible, and good scientists adjust their beliefs according the the evidence as it presents itself. Calling people who understand the science and follow it "brainwashed" isn't going to convince anyone, especially when you are so upset by a little name calling when it is applied to you. What's next? Is the germ theory of disease all wrong? Because if it isn't then masks and distancing are rational responses to a virus for which there is yet no widely available vaccine.
    Ed ,the virus is easily treatable treated early, masks, lockdown and rushed therefore unsafe vaccines are not necessary and never will be. Please consider the data on this site.

    https://ivmmeta.com/

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    • Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post

      Ed ,the virus is easily treatable treated early, masks, lockdown and rushed therefore unsafe vaccines are not necessary and never will be. Please consider the data on this site.

      https://ivmmeta.com/

      Repeating lies does not make them true. "ivmmeta.com" is not a credible reference.

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      • Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post


        Repeating lies does not make them true. "ivmmeta.com" is not a credible reference.
        The links within the website are directly to papers published in quality medical journals. Learn to read.

        https://c19ivermectin.com/
        Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Monday, 30th November, 2020, 04:21 PM.

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        • Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post

          You are so predictable with your arguments, the whole point is that they change their minds when the politics suit them, nothing to do with science, Do you not see how brainwashed you are?
          I'm curious: if it's just politics, then why do so many countries across the world recommend masks? The United States, Canada, Israel, New Zealand, the UK, South Korea, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, South Africa, India, etc. Even Brazil implemented a mask mandate. It seems like every major country I look at recommends and often requires masks to be worn in certain situations. Is it all just a big conspiracy? Did the doctors and scientists all across the world get together and decide to lie to everyone because of politics?

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          • Originally posted by Lucas Davies View Post

            I'm curious: if it's just politics, then why do so many countries across the world recommend masks? The United States, Canada, Israel, New Zealand, the UK, South Korea, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, South Africa, India, etc. Even Brazil implemented a mask mandate. It seems like every major country I look at recommends and often requires masks to be worn in certain situations. Is it all just a big conspiracy? Did the doctors and scientists all across the world get together and decide to lie to everyone because of politics?
            !!
            Exactly. Thanks for saying it, Lucas.
            "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
            "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
            "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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            • Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post

              The links within the website are directly to papers published in quality medical journals. Learn to read.

              https://c19ivermectin.com/
              Un-replicated studies by themselves mean nothing. Just about anyone can get a study published. What are your credentials for drawing such broad sweeping conclusions from them? Are you an epidemiologist? The study you referenced say anything about the efficacy of masking and social distancing. I read pretty well, but I'm not going to bother with medical advice from unqualified laypeople. The qualified people say wearing masks, keeping distance, hand washing and so on are effective. Sorry but I believe them over you.

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              • Originally posted by Lucas Davies View Post

                I'm curious: if it's just politics, then why do so many countries across the world recommend masks? The United States, Canada, Israel, New Zealand, the UK, South Korea, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, South Africa, India, etc. Even Brazil implemented a mask mandate. It seems like every major country I look at recommends and often requires masks to be worn in certain situations. Is it all just a big conspiracy? Did the doctors and scientists all across the world get together and decide to lie to everyone because of politics?
                Lucas, while I too believe that masks are likely to be helpful, in general one should never underestimate the power of 'political correctness'...While Galileo may be just one poster boy illustrating that, there are a myriad of such 'popular beliefs' in history as well as in our world today, which can be proven wrong, but at the risk of being made into an outcast...Sid has taken the right approach of presenting some scientific evidence, and the best way to counter that would be to illustrate the holes in that evidence or present scientific counter-evidence...

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                • Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post

                  Ed ,the virus is easily treatable treated early, masks, lockdown and rushed therefore unsafe vaccines are not necessary and never will be. Please consider the data on this site.

                  https://ivmmeta.com/
                  Sid, there is something I don't understand. If there is such early treatment and it DOES help to minimize the effects of the virus as proven by scientific studies, why can't that be COMBINED with wearing of masks, social distancing, and yes even lockdowns if transmission of cases gets out of hand?

                  Now I imagine you might talk about the economic damages from social distancing and lockdowns, and yes there are going to be some such damages. BUT.... the goal is to prevent overloading of hospital systems, so that people with other conditions requiring ICU beds don't get sidelined by Covid patients. See, we aren't just talking numbers here, not just cases and deaths, but we are talking about the PROCESS. Your early treatment would reduce the numbers of people requiring ICU treatment, but so would social distancing and occasional lockdowns.

                  And let's not even debate wearing of masks. It is a freedom issue for you? One person's life is not an even trade for the so-called "freedom" of the entire world. As I've pointed out here before, in most of Asia the dense populations have gotten used to wearing of masks in public even WITHOUT a pandemic. It is selfish and ignorant for western peoples to reject wearing of masks from a freedom standpoint. We are a densely populated world, there are all kinds of germs we carry, wear an effing mask in public.

                  And further, if you really believe in what you are preaching here, why are you wasting time HERE? Why aren't you in the news, preaching this to the people who make decisions? Why aren't you arguing for these early treatments AT LEAST IN ADDITION TO the already existing guidelines? It's not an either / or proposition.

                  Anyway, you will probably ignore this post, but if you do answer, consider that I for one have been open minded about your arguments, even the ones about economic damages. Yes, at some point economic damages could be so catastrophic that we might have to just let some spread of Covid occur just to save us from a devasting depression. I don't know exactly how such a decision gets made, but the Bidens and Trudeaus of the world might have to make it in future. But wearing of masks doesn't cause economic damage, so that one is a no brainer. And if these early treatments are as effective as you believe, lockdowns and vaccines can still be on the table, not written off entirely as you suggest.




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                  • Originally posted by Hans Jung View Post
                    North Dakota has passed 10% of population infected.
                    That means that after including the asymptomatic infected (and not tested), the state is likely to have achieved herd immunity....Did that lead to a dramatic fall in infections? Yes it seems to be doing that, though we shall have to wait a few more days to see if they fall to a really low level...

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                    • Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post

                      Un-replicated studies by themselves mean nothing. Just about anyone can get a study published. What are your credentials for drawing such broad sweeping conclusions from them? Are you an epidemiologist? The study you referenced say anything about the efficacy of masking and social distancing. I read pretty well, but I'm not going to bother with medical advice from unqualified laypeople. The qualified people say wearing masks, keeping distance, hand washing and so on are effective. Sorry but I believe them over you.

                      Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post
                      Un-replicated studies by themselves mean nothing
                      The only thing that comes out of your mouth is hollow rhetoric. This early treatment alone has been replicated 100s of studies all showing efficacy for early symptomatic high risk patients. Until you learn to read we have nothing further to discuss. The fully replicated studies are all there for you to read.

                      https://c19study.com

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post

                        That means that after including the asymptomatic infected (and not tested), the state is likely to have achieved herd immunity....Did that lead to a dramatic fall in infections? Yes it seems to be doing that, though we shall have to wait a few more days to see if they fall to a really low level...
                        The generally accepted figure for "herd immunity" is 60 to 80% actually having antibodies in their bloodstreams. This has not been achieved except with effective vaccines to my knowledge. 10% is way too low even if everyone infected has antibodies post infection, which has not to my knowledge been proven.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post

                          Lucas, while I too believe that masks are likely to be helpful, in general one should never underestimate the power of 'political correctness'...While Galileo may be just one poster boy illustrating that, there are a myriad of such 'popular beliefs' in history as well as in our world today, which can be proven wrong, but at the risk of being made into an outcast...Sid has taken the right approach of presenting some scientific evidence, and the best way to counter that would be to illustrate the holes in that evidence or present scientific counter-evidence...
                          I believe it incredibly unlikely that political correctness could possibly cause the entire world's scientific community to so strongly support masks, but regardless, I already tried presenting the scientific evidence. I posted 3 meta-analyses back in September, and Sid's only response was this:

                          As for three papers you cited all of them effectively stated the following "additional evidence is required to better clarify the effectiveness of masks or face coverings in various circumstances" including RCT's.
                          After I pointed out that most research papers will say in the discussion that more research is required, he didn't respond. Here are the three meta-analyses:

                          https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardio...ng-respiratory

                          https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journ...20)31142-9.pdf

                          https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...651v1.full.pdf

                          Here's another one that's been published since I posted those: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....31.20166116v1

                          Our results show that face masks protect populations from infections and do not pose a significant risk to users. Recommendations and clear communication concerning the benefits of face masks should be provided to limit the number of COVID-19 and other respiratory infections.
                          Another systematic review: https://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid...pt=sci_arttext

                          Cloth masks seem to provide some degree of protection against contamination and transmission by droplets and aerosols. It is suggested that the use of cloth masks by the public is a useful public health measure that can protect the wearer and at the same time act as source decrease disease transmission.

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                          • My IQ goes down almost every time I read something in this thread. Soon I will be as smart as some of the posters!
                            Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense. - Gertrude Stein

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                            • Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post

                              The generally accepted figure for "herd immunity" is 60 to 80% actually having antibodies in their bloodstreams. This has not been achieved except with effective vaccines to my knowledge. 10% is way too low even if everyone infected has antibodies post infection, which has not to my knowledge been proven.
                              For every swab tested positive case, there are expected to be 6 to 10 serologically positive individuals....hence N. Dakota may well have achieved herd immunity...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post

                                For every swab tested positive case, there are expected to be 6 to 10 serologically positive individuals....hence N. Dakota may well have achieved herd immunity...
                                Let's test the theory that North Dakota has achieved herd immunity.
                                If it has, then their numbers should begin a downward slope. Correct?
                                Well, I suppose there will be a lag from cases to deaths, but a starting point would be their numbers as of this yesterday.

                                North Dakota

                                Total cases - 79,252
                                Deaths - 927
                                Active Cases - 6,477
                                Recovered - 71,848
                                Deaths per million - 1,216
                                Population - 762,062




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