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For any interested, there is more information on Democratic Marxism on the Fb page of The Democratic Marxist Party of Ontario (https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-...10768894126939).
Bob A
Bob A
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Or worse! We could be dealing here with something horrific like unorthodox neo-democratic ultra-illiberal avante garde marxism.Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post
Be best, baby!!"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De QuinceyComment
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Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
Well, I did intend for this paticular thread to be about whether Biden would be able to govern a nation that is divided against itself. So Bob A., you are welcome to start another thread about your Democratic Marxism and I even encourage it since I do like philosophical discussion. And on that topic, I thought of something. Let me preface it by saying (actually repeating) that for me, politics has indeed been corrupted for many generations now, because almost all politicians are self-serving. So for me, it isn't about "isms" at all. It's about why is anyone a politician. If it is self-serving, it is corrupt. Period. Same as a doctor. If someone becomes a doctor because of the prestige or the money, that doctor is corrupt. Being a doctor should be a about serving humanity and nothing else (unfortunately, this goes against the human nature of greed).
We have allowed both doctors and politicians to become self-serving, and the result is just what you should expect: chaos in health care and in politics. And chaos doesn't serve the general good.
So if someone wants to start a political "ism", whatever name it has, it should begin with this: Politicians make very little money. They are not to be celebrities. In fact, they should be barely above the status of volunteers. If it isn't in your blood to serve humanity, you should not be a politician. I'd love to say the same about doctors, but there is a difference. Politicians aren't really necessary, whereas doctors are. Therefore we do have to reward doctors more than politicians.
When I say politicians aren't really necessary, I suppose someone could say that puts me in a libertarian niche. Perhaps.... smaller government and all of that. Yet on the other hand, I do believe that regulation is highly necessary. So what I'm proposing is that heavy regulation is necessary (to prevent things like the Flint water crisis, just to use one example), but it should be administered by a small number of politicians who are very very dedicated to the good of society. And the proof of that dedication is their very small reward for the work they do. Now obviously, to enforce heavy regulation is going to take a large contingent of enforcement and a very efficient justice system.
Now even this is prone to abuse, since even a poor politician could be a bad politician. So one other ingredient is necessary: an overall management system that is run by the politicians as a group, so that renegade politicians who have some vision that isn't in the common good of society are not allowed to impose their will. And a way for the people to control that management process in a very democratic and responsive way. In the age of the internet, that is more possible than ever.
Having now expressed all that, I am fully recognizant that it all goes against human nature and therefore isn't realistic at all. Humanity has strived for perfection in the running of society for millenia without success, and will continue to do so into the future. Therefore I regard all of this as pure fantasy, and the real Hell is Earth itself and will always be. And in fact, that is exactly how things need to be. So I am not about to encourage anyone to try and bring about this vision I've expressed. It would be doomed to failure. The central problem is human greed, which is essential to a Capitalist viewpoint and which Trump and his cohorts are very comfortable with. Therefore do not think you are rid of Trumpist thinking. Not at all. It will return again and again as long as humanity exists.
When you can take everything I've written here and honestly say "I understand", you are on the first step to spiritual enlightenment.
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Regulations lead to a huge number of 'victimless crimes', in addition to actual victims; on the other hand, educating the people, and ensuring accountability (esp. appropriate compensation of the victim) leads to fewer victims overall...Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View PostLast edited by Dilip Panjwani; Sunday, 17th January, 2021, 10:07 AM.Comment
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Matthew 6:33Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
Far too many other verses that allude to self-serving such as...
Revelation 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
You have NO IDEA of what you're saying, Pargat.
Again, you couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post
Central Capitalist viewpoint is to bring an IDEA to life & have that IDEA live as long a life as possible! And the protection of that IDEA as private property.
Capital consists of human-created assets that can enhance one's power to perform economically useful work. So, as an example on a micro level ... Raja Pajwani's chess book, The Hyper Accelerated Dragon. Not only does he hold the copyright to his awesome work ... he can also accumulate as much profit as he wants from his work.
OK?
Same true on a macro level ... Jeff Bezo, Elon Musk, etc., etc..
Capitalism has nothing to do with greed. It has everything to do with being able AND being allowed to open the door.
.Last edited by Neil Frarey; Sunday, 17th January, 2021, 06:00 PM.Comment
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How about the verses where Jesus gets angry (bad Jesus!) and chases the moneymakers out of the church?Originally posted by Neil Frarey View Post
How about the verses where Jesus tells the disciples to give up every material thing in their life, including friends and family?
Ah yes, Bible verses can be used to justify anything you want!
Ah yes, the IDEA, the Holy Grail. Like the idea of chasing Native Americans off their land so you can put a cattle ranch there. Great idea! Who needs to care about Native Americans anyway?Originally posted by Neil Frarey View Post
The idea of declaring bankruptcy 4 times so you can not pay the workers who built your buildings .... very smart!
There have been so many great ideas over the millennia .... sacrificing virgins to the "Gods" ... waging war to gain slave labor ... waging war to commit genocide ...
Here's an idea: how about we steal other people's ideas and make some of our own improvements and then sell our improved product or service? Great idea!
Here's another one: let's create a virus in a lab, send it out to the USA, and watch them destroy themselves because they won't lockdown and wear masks, while we here at home make sure our own citizens are perfectly locked down and masked because we control them, so that while the USA is imploding, our own economy can charge forward? Great idea!
Now that last idea, i have no idea whether it has any basis in fact. I would doubt it, but anything is possible.
I shouldn't have to explain my point, but with you, who knows... you don't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. I like how you glorify capital as performing "economically useful work". Yeah, that guy's a Trump supporter for sure.
Anyway, I was referring to only 2 professions: politician and doctor. Those are the professions that need to be free from greed. Up to a point, I am not against greed in itself, but those 2 professions and greed do not mix well.
But hey, I don't know what I'm talking about so I might as well just shut up. All you're succeeding in doing is proving my last point, that the idea of politics and medicine being free from greed is a fantasy. There will always be more Neil Frareys to justify unmitigated runaway greed everywhere.
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I expect this must be news to a lot of people.Originally posted by Neil Frarey View Post"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De QuinceyComment
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greed: rapacious/extortionate desire for something, with an implication of desire to acquire something illegally or something you can do without, in the opinion of the accuser, though the accused may have good and valid reasons to acquire it and may be acquiring it legally and ethically.Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
It is a term used by those against capitalism to denigrate capitalists. Greed is not an essential component of capitalism.Comment
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It might be fun to classify jobs by listing them from most despicable ( "n" ) to least despicable. I'll start:Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post- n : politicians
- n - 1 : human traffickers
- n - 2 : lawyers
- n - 3 : international arms dealers
- n - 4 : used car salespeople
- ......
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De QuinceyComment
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C'mon, Dilip, are you kidding me?? Greed may not be an essential component of capitalism from the perspective of someone constructing a definition, but remember that capitalism, in the various ways it has been applied in the world, has the happy (for a very few people) characteristic of concentrating wealth in the hands of the powerful. Arguing that greed is only used to denigrate capitalists is like arguing that an attraction to feces is only used to denigrate flies.Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De QuinceyComment
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n-5 TV evangelistsOriginally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
n-6 Spokespersons for Trump ( i.e Kellyanne Conway, Sara Huckabee ) n-7 Fox News anchorsComment
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Ya might want to read this article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rainerz...h=983cc7b67aae
Although this one is probably more in line with Peter, given his reading history. https://www.theatlantic.com/business...s-idea/360265/Comment
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No, calling capitalists 'greedy' for wealth is like calling bees 'greedy' for honey....Originally posted by Peter McKillop View PostComment
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