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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make but if it's what I think it is then I disagree with you. All of us have known people who did something illegal or unethical and, when they were caught, their first words were something like this: "Hey c'mon, what's the big deal? It was only ...." Are you suggesting, Patrick, that we should let Niemann get away with, "Hey c'mon man, what's the big deal? It was only online blitz. Who cares?" Niemann cheated online, a large number of times according to chess.com, and then lied about it. We should care.
p.s. While there is something tragic about all of this (a young man potentially putting the kibosh on his own career due to stupid decisions), the fact is that Niemann did this to himself. He shot himself in both feet dozens of times, scores of times. I'm finding it really difficult to work up any sympathy for him.
He paid the price for his cheating by being banned from Chess.com and having to forgo opportunities as a result. And justifiably so.
What I'm saying is that online cheating is a very weak indicator of propensity to cheat over-the-board, and cheating in low-stakes online games is a very weak indicator of overall moral character. Cheating in a super-tournament is another level of criminal sophistication, another level of moral depravity. It's like saying "I'm not surprised that guy got busted for smuggling cocaine, he used to smoke pot in high-school." Maybe the majority of people who go on to become serious criminals do use drugs in high-school, but the reverse is not true.
He paid the price for his cheating by being banned from Chess.com and having to forgo opportunities as a result. And justifiably so.
What I'm saying is that online cheating is a very weak indicator of propensity to cheat over-the-board, and cheating in low-stakes online games is a very weak indicator of overall moral character. Cheating in a super-tournament is another level of criminal sophistication, another level of moral depravity. It's like saying "I'm not surprised that guy got busted for smuggling cocaine, he used to smoke pot in high-school." Maybe the majority of people who go on to become serious criminals do use drugs in high-school, but the reverse is not true.
Well put, Patrick, I for one agree with you on this.
Since Neimann is a confessed cheater at online chess from some years ago, he is playing top level chess with a target on his back. Thus it seems doubly unlikely to me that he would engage in a much more sophisticated* and dangerous cheating method in OTB play at super-GM events.
I liked your comparison, Patrick, but here's a way to really put it into perspective: Niemann if he is a cheater right now at OTB events would be like a person who in high-school was CONVICTED of selling pot to his fellow students (before pot became legal) and who is now WORKING AS A DEA AGENT while secretly running a heroin / cocaine / fentanyl dealing network across the whole country.
It's several orders of magnitude jump in both the scrutiny he is under PLUS the complexity needed to pull it off.
Just doesn't pass the smell test to me. Ohhhh I just realized that could be taken literally .... Anal Beads Code Vibrations!!!!!!
or as the Canadian military would refer to it, ABCVs.
Neil Frarey, can you make Anal Beads Code Vibrations into a viral Internet meme?
T-shirts? Coffee mugs? Stocking stuffers for Christmas? (sold at Dollarama, little plastic anal beads powered by watch batteries) .....
EDIT: perhaps what is really going on here is that Magnus sees Niemann and a real threat, perhaps a chess genius, and is trying to use Niemann's online cheating from the past to DERAIL his career at the top levels!
Last edited by Pargat Perrer; Wednesday, 5th October, 2022, 10:51 PM.
Well put, Patrick, I for one agree with you on this.
Since Neimann is a confessed cheater at online chess from some years ago, he is playing top level chess with a target on his back. Thus it seems doubly unlikely to me that he would engage in a much more sophisticated* and dangerous cheating method in OTB play at super-GM events.
I liked your comparison, Patrick, but here's a way to really put it into perspective: Niemann if he is a cheater right now at OTB events would be like a person who in high-school was CONVICTED of selling pot to his fellow students (before pot became legal) and who is now WORKING AS A DEA AGENT while secretly running a heroin / cocaine / fentanyl dealing network across the whole country.
It's several orders of magnitude jump in both the scrutiny he is under PLUS the complexity needed to pull it off.
Just doesn't pass the smell test to me. Ohhhh I just realized that could be taken literally .... Anal Beads Code Vibrations!!!!!!
or as the Canadian military would refer to it, ABCVs.
Neil Frarey, can you make Anal Beads Code Vibrations into a viral Internet meme?
T-shirts? Coffee mugs? Stocking stuffers for Christmas? (sold at Dollarama, little plastic anal beads powered by watch batteries) .....
EDIT: perhaps what is really going on here is that Magnus sees Niemann and a real threat, perhaps a chess genius, and is trying to use Niemann's online cheating from the past to DERAIL his career at the top levels!
.
Last edited by Neil Frarey; Thursday, 6th October, 2022, 01:55 AM.
He paid the price for his cheating by being banned from Chess.com and having to forgo opportunities as a result. And justifiably so. ....
Either I didn't express myself well or you've misinterpreted what I said. At no time in this thread have I said that Niemann's online cheating should be used as a basis for punishing him in OTB chess. In fact, I believe he should NOT be punished further unless there is conclusive evidence that he cheated in OTB chess too. My point was that we should care about Niemann's online cheating history, and not simply dismiss it as a childish error in judgement, because he did it so many times and then lied about it. Niemann is a highly intelligent young man. He knew what he was doing was wrong but he chose to do it anyway. Where I was raised that is considered a character flaw, a moral failing. He had the intelligence to make the right decisions but he deliberately chose to make the wrong decisions. The fact that Niemann is currently undergoing a sort of punishment by suspicion and innuendo is 100% his own fault. As the old idiom says, the kid made his bed.....
What I'm saying is that online cheating is a very weak indicator of propensity to cheat over-the-board, and cheating in low-stakes online games is a very weak indicator of overall moral character. .....
Perhaps you're right but where are you getting this from? Are you a professional behavioural psychologist with links to online information that will back this up, or is this just your personal opinion?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Well put, Patrick, I for one agree with you on this.
Since Neimann is a confessed cheater at online chess from some years ago, he is playing top level chess with a target on his back. Thus it seems doubly unlikely to me that he would engage in a much more sophisticated* and dangerous cheating method in OTB play at super-GM events.
I liked your comparison, Patrick, but here's a way to really put it into perspective: Niemann if he is a cheater right now at OTB events would be like a person who in high-school was CONVICTED of selling pot to his fellow students (before pot became legal) and who is now WORKING AS A DEA AGENT while secretly running a heroin / cocaine / fentanyl dealing network across the whole country.
It's several orders of magnitude jump in both the scrutiny he is under PLUS the complexity needed to pull it off.
Just doesn't pass the smell test to me. Ohhhh I just realized that could be taken literally .... Anal Beads Code Vibrations!!!!!!
or as the Canadian military would refer to it, ABCVs.
Neil Frarey, can you make Anal Beads Code Vibrations into a viral Internet meme?
T-shirts? Coffee mugs? Stocking stuffers for Christmas? (sold at Dollarama, little plastic anal beads powered by watch batteries) .....
EDIT: perhaps what is really going on here is that Magnus sees Niemann and a real threat, perhaps a chess genius, and is trying to use Niemann's online cheating from the past to DERAIL his career at the top levels!
Pargat, I'm concerned about you. It was only a few months ago that you revealed, right here at Chesstalk, that you suffered from PCSD (post cleavage stress disorder). And now here you are publicly recommending a line of anal bead giftware. My friend, it appears that you are on the slippery slope to perdition. I hope it wasn't my bad example that helped put you there.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Either I didn't express myself well or you've misinterpreted what I said. At no time in this thread have I said that Niemann's online cheating should be used as a basis for punishing him in OTB chess. In fact, I believe he should NOT be punished further unless there is conclusive evidence that he cheated in OTB chess too. My point was that we should care about Niemann's online cheating history, and not simply dismiss it as a childish error in judgement, because he did it so many times and then lied about it. Niemann is a highly intelligent young man. He knew what he was doing was wrong but he chose to do it anyway. Where I was raised that is considered a character flaw, a moral failing. He had the intelligence to make the right decisions but he deliberately chose to make the wrong decisions. The fact that Niemann is currently undergoing a sort of punishment by suspicion and innuendo is 100% his own fault. As the old idiom says, the kid made his bed.....
Perhaps you're right but where are you getting this from? Are you a professional behavioural psychologist with links to online information that will back this up, or is this just your personal opinion?
It's my personal opinion, but I think it's also common sense. A lot of people are willing to transgress boundaries in situations a.) where it's really easy to give into temptation and b.) not much is at stake. Not that many people are willing (and able) to mastermind a sophisticated criminal enterprise where there is a significant amount at stake.
As a shirt I think Neimann's face would look nice in the centre, but that's mean. He doesn't wear beads, it's only a string theory.
Do you also have the instruction manual? Morse code: long for file, short for rank? That's a lot of beads, each with it's own chip, receiver, vibrator, and battery. How does one feel the difference pieces move?
It does give new meaning to deep analysis.
Last edited by Erik Malmsten; Thursday, 6th October, 2022, 09:47 PM.
Pargat, I'm concerned about you. It was only a few months ago that you revealed, right here at Chesstalk, that you suffered from PCSD (post cleavage stress disorder). And now here you are publicly recommending a line of anal bead giftware. My friend, it appears that you are on the slippery slope to perdition. I hope it wasn't my bad example that helped put you there.
I am fully pacified now from that disorder, Peter, don't worry :)
Also, I did confess to cheating on the "oral" exams required to apply to be Underwear Secretary of the Interior for Kellyanne Conway (I was listening on headphones to the Fleetwook Mac song "Big Love" during the "exam").
Peter, how are you doing with your own disorder? What was it called now? .... Oh yeah, Post Erectile Nervous Insanity Syndrome ....
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
As a shirt I think Neimann's face would look nice in the centre, but that's mean. He doesn't wear beads, it's only a string theory.
Do you also have the instruction manual? Morse code: long for file, short for rank? That's a lot of beads, each with it's own chip, receiver, vibrator, and battery. How does one feel the difference pieces move?
It does give new meaning to deep analysis.
LOOL!!!
FYI ... Niemann beads can also pulse a playlist!
Vibes such as ...
One Night in Bangkok by Murray Head!
or perhaps
Weak Spot by Wu-Tang Clan!
maybe even
Grandmasters LP by DJ Muggs and GZA!
... ha!!!
Niemann was the only player butt scanned at the U.S. Chess Championships ...
An interesting but strange read. I don't follow Dlugy's rationalization for confessing to cheating when he claims he didn't cheat. I suppose it's an indication of how little value he attaches to online chess. If it's an insignificant activity then who really cares, right? But then he contradicts himself by annotating 9 games to demonstrate that he wasn't cheating. WTF? Why waste that time if he doesn't care? As a generalization, the stronger the chess player the weirder they are.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
An interesting but strange read. I don't follow Dlugy's rationalization for confessing to cheating when he claims he didn't cheat. I suppose it's an indication of how little value he attaches to online chess. If it's an insignificant activity then who really cares, right? But then he contradicts himself by annotating 9 games to demonstrate that he wasn't cheating. WTF? Why waste that time if he doesn't care? As a generalization, the stronger the chess player the weirder they are.
As I read it, basically once chess.com decides you cheated, you have two options:
1) admit that you cheated, apologize, promise not to do it again and be allowed back
2) deny you cheated and be banned for life and face whispers that you were banned and what that implies
Dlugy's article implies (or states pretty close to directly) that there's no such thing as a third option of:
3) Deny you cheated and have your case re-examined
I don't get the impression from his writing that he doesn't care about online chess; quite the opposite.
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