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I like to spell Ed Seedhouse correctly so when people type your name in Google all your thoughts and brilliant writings show up.
I actually laughed when I saw Seedmore, but i think you're making a big deal out of nothing, adding an extra r to gary shouldn't be that offensive. lets all calm down, and start talking about more important things then name-calling...
Even if you can prove that these mass murderers were atheists, it is not important because probably not a single person has ever been killed in the name of atheism and that Christian writer needs to get his facts straight(he was on the Colbert report once I believe). He also believes in intelligent design(a.k.a. creationism) and is against the separation of church of state, I don't think I can take him seriously.
Also you might want to read the conclusion of that article you quoted, In conclusion, I think that Hitler was not an atheist, but he was not a Christian either. While he was materialist and rationalist in a lot of things, he also talked a lot about "Providence", or "Nature", as a sort of mystical force of fate, and he saw himself as somehow destined for victory even when the war was going badly for him, simply because of the purity of his purpose, his strength of will, and his feeling of destiny. I have even read that he believed in reincarnation. To me, some of his quotes and writings make it sound like he worshipped the German national identity; some make it seem like instead of God he worshipped or idealised or divinised Providence / Nature / Fate, with his glorious destiny assured no matter what; and in some ways it seems to me like he worshipped himself.
Not unlike the cult of AGW and the useful idiots who apologized for and extolled the communistic ideals as millions were being murdered.
Hitler was influenced by the writings of Nietzche who would have been horrified had he lived to see what the Nazis did with his philosophical and poetic writings. Hitler was a consumate liar and a murderer and an atheist with some pagan themes piped in as background music. What he wrote privately about his beliefs is probably more indicative of his state.
The AGW/Gaia religion is an echo of Hitler's themes of Nature and Providence.
Mao's regime killed Taoists in the millions and perhaps tens of millions.
How Many Have Been Killed by Communists/Fascists in the Name of Atheism & Secularism?:
None, probably. How can that be? After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments — and those governments were both secular and atheistic. So weren't all of those people killed because of atheism — even in the name of atheism and secularism? No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness...
Stalin "hated" religion so much, that in 1951-06-27 he gave "Stalin's Prize" to English clergyman Hewlett Johnson.
From Wikipedia:
The Very Reverend Hewlett Johnson (25 January 1874 - 22 October 1966), was an English clergyman, Dean of Manchester and later Dean of Canterbury, where he acquired his nickname The Red Dean of Canterbury for his unyielding support for the Soviet Union and its allies.
Adam if you don't want me to consign you to the Ed Seedhouse category of mindless lefties incapable of independent thought, you really need to stop giving such bad examples to prove your points.
I am not defending God. He needs no defense from a wretch like myself. I am not defending religion because I object to most religions as they like the leeches precipitating around AGW. That is one of my objections to all of the nonsense associated with the silly theory of AGW. It is a religion.
Various prizes under Soviet authority received and other priests.
So the common claims that Stalin was an anti-theist is wrong, a deeper research into Russian history will give you a different perspective.
They always did know how to reward the "useful idiots" as they called them.
I don't think you can prove any of these mass-murderers were atheists, there is as much contradictory evidence for as against this matter.
If you read what they wrote and said then it is clear that they were atheists. Later, when it became clear that communism was a failed experiment, some of them may have faltered.
How many people has God killed?, this article lists all the events in the bible where God kills some people and you see a really high number, so much for being all-loving.
So let me get this straight. God who you claim is a fictional character is bad because he killed all these people that he didn't really kill since he doesn't exist according to you.
The atheists who killed some 65 million people or more in the 20th century are okay because they didn't kill for atheism but for other reasons. Those 65 million people are still dead whatever the atheists motivations. Their atheistic beliefs allowed them to undertake such genocides.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Tuesday, 24th August, 2010, 09:32 PM.
Not unlike the cult of AGW and the useful idiots who apologized for and extolled the communistic ideals as millions were being murdered.
Hitler was influenced by the writings of Nietzche who would have been horrified had he lived to see what the Nazis did with his philosophical and poetic writings. Hitler was a consumate liar and a murderer and an atheist with some pagan themes piped in as background music. What he wrote privately about his beliefs is probably more indicative of his state.
The AGW/Gaia religion is an echo of Hitler's themes of Nature and Providence.
Mao's regime killed Taoists in the millions and perhaps tens of millions.
From Wikipedia:
The Very Reverend Hewlett Johnson (25 January 1874 - 22 October 1966), was an English clergyman, Dean of Manchester and later Dean of Canterbury, where he acquired his nickname The Red Dean of Canterbury for his unyielding support for the Soviet Union and its allies.
Adam if you don't want me to consign you to the Ed Seedhouse category of mindless lefties incapable of independent thought, you really need to stop giving such bad examples to prove your points.
I am not defending God. He needs no defense from a wretch like myself. I am not defending religion because I object to most religions as they like the leeches precipitating around AGW. That is one of my objections to all of the nonsense associated with the silly theory of AGW. It is a religion.
They always did know how to reward the "useful idiots" as they called them.
If you read what they wrote and said then it is clear that they were atheists. Later, when it became clear that communism was a failed experiment, some of them may have faltered.
So let me get this straight. God who you claim is a fictional character is bad because he killed all these people that he didn't really kill since he doesn't exist according to you.
The atheists who killed some 65 million people or more in the 20th century are okay because they didn't kill for atheism but for other reasons. Those 65 million people are still dead whatever the atheists motivations. Their atheistic beliefs allowed them to undertake such genocides.
First of all you keep on calling Hitler an atheist, but there is a lot of contradictory evidence that you won't even acknowledge as well as the writer of the article you got all your quotes for didn't even believe Hitler was an atheist.
AGW isn't religion it is science, their is no deity in AGW, no myth or superstition just facts and evidence, you can ignore them but it doesn't mean the facts will go away.
Mao really didn't care who he killed he wanted power, since a large percentage of China's population was taoist obviously many of them were killed, do you really believed he didn't kill atheists as well? Using your line of thinking he couldn't be an atheist because he killed them. Christians killed other sects of Christianity in religious wars does that suddenly make them not Christians? No, that is illogical as is your supposed way of thought.
Did you even read the article about why atheism hasn't killed people, probably not because it contains too much facts and evidence(proving my argument)...you didn't make a point contradicting it at all you just quoted it...
Yeah Hewlett Johnson did support the soviet union, but so did many people living inside it at the time. Stalin being the anti-theist that he is should have killed Reverend Hewlett Johnson for his religious beliefs, but no Stalin's killing weren't about religion, they were about power and people supporting his power(or people not supporting his power). He viewed religion as a threat to his power which is why he abolished it. The mass murderers were power hungry monsters, they killed for many reasons but not atheism.
Actually many people object to every other religion besides their own, some of us just take it one religion further(switch God for religion and it works just the same).
As I already said AGW is not a religion
definitions for religion:
# a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"
# an institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
AGW is nothing like that...
Everyone not just the religious were tools too Stalin for him too gain more power and control over the U.S.S.R. and it's people.
First of all, these mass murderers were obviously insane and their religious can't truly be known because they were constantly contradicting themselves, shifting their ideals on issues, and some time just flat-out lying.
Communism as written in Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto has never actually been achieved, it is supposed to be a utopia without a government, not a fascist dictator.
The fundamentalists who claim that the bible is historically accurate and the inerrant word of God should realize that they don't want the bible to be true or else millions and millions of people are dead because of their all-loving God.
People have killed millions upon millions in the name of God, or religion.
This is when I really have to question your intelligence,
'atheistic beliefs'?? NO SUCH THING EXISTS, atheists aren't making a claim they are rejecting someone elses. If someone walks up to you claiming they have a milk carton and then you seeing they don't, say no you don't that isn't a belief that is a fact(replace milk carton with imaginary friend, a.k.a. God and the atheists position is easy to understand).
The only one that has the most evidence for his atheism with the least amount of contradictory evidence is Stalin, all the others are controversial(even Stalin is a bit controversial).
And it doesn't matter what their religious beliefs are, the person is evil, but not because of their atheism. Do you claim the child molesting priests are evil because of their religion? No they are evil because they are sick and perverted having nothing to do with their religion.
So yes these 'atheists' as you call them were bad people, but I'm willing to wager that the religious have also killed plenty in their religious wars, etc...
No one is smashing airplanes into skyscrapers for Richard Dawkins(9/11), or going on a holy crusade over Christopher Hitchens(The religious Crusades), or punishing the savages for not accepting Sam Harris into their life(The Spanish inquisition) or slaughtering your ex-friends for slightly different beliefs(Christian genocides)
All those killed in religious wars are still dead even though they died in the name of God.
So all you are saying is that there were atheists(controversial) that killed a bunch of people, so therefore(using Vlad's flawed logic) all atheism is evil and therefore all atheists are evil. I could use the same logic in religious beliefs, but it is completely logically fallacious.
Last edited by Adam Cormier; Tuesday, 24th August, 2010, 10:30 PM.
Reason: spelling error
First of all you keep on calling Hitler an atheist, but there is a lot of contradictory evidence that you won't even acknowledge as well as the writer of the article you got all your quotes for didn't even believe Hitler was an atheist.
I should believe an atheist and disbelieve the private record of Hitler's thought. Hitler was a master manipulator who used the German's beliefs to enhance his power. If they believed in God he made himself appear to believe with them. You can try to rewrite history all you want but a few internet quotes do not overcome a mountain of historical writings.
AGW isn't religion it is science, their is no deity in AGW, no myth or superstition just facts and evidence, you can ignore them but it doesn't mean the facts will go away.
It is a religion. Science is one of its gods. The scientists are its high priests and its minor gods. Gore is one of its false prophets.
Did you even read the article about why atheism hasn't killed people, probably not because it contains too much facts and evidence(proving my argument)...you didn't make a point contradicting it at all you just quoted it...
A lot of nonsense was spouted. I don't have time to refute every idiotic statement from every fuzzy thinking atheist that you quote. I had been warned to expect it from what I read in "How Evil Works" but I didn't expect to encounter it so quickly.
You need to grow up and get an education and you won't be impressed by nonsensical arguments and laughable credentials. Go out and get involved in some actual research that gets published and you won't have as much reverence for it. Better yet take some courses in philosophy and expand your mind.
Yeah Hewlett Johnson did support the soviet union, but so did many people living inside it at the time. Stalin being the anti-theist that he is should have killed Reverend Hewlett Johnson for his religious beliefs, but no Stalin's killing weren't about religion, they were about power and people supporting his power(or people not supporting his power). He viewed religion as a threat to his power which is why he abolished it. The mass murderers were power hungry monsters, they killed for many reasons but not atheism.
I never said they killed for atheism and that is how the author of that piece throws a red herring at you which you swallow along with the embedded hook, line and sinker. Their atheism is what allowed them to kill all those people. They were amoral sociopaths whose pathology was deeply rooted in their belief system.
Why would Stalin want to kill an ally?
As I already said AGW is not a religion
definitions for religion:
# a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny;
You already said it but who died and made you an authority? Not all religions believe in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
"he lost his faith but not his morality"
# an institution to express belief in a divine power;
The UN.
First of all, these mass murderers were obviously insane and their religious can't truly be known because they were constantly contradicting themselves, shifting their ideals on issues, and some time just flat-out lying.
You are wrong about their sanity at least from what I recall of my abnormal psychology classes. Those classes really come in handy when dealing with some of the AGW apologists like Ed.
Communism as written in Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto has never actually been achieved, it is supposed to be a utopia without a government, not a fascist dictator.
It can never be achieved because humans are not built that way.
The fundamentalists who claim that the bible is historically accurate and the inerrant word of God should realize that they don't want the bible to be true or else millions and millions of people are dead because of their all-loving God.
People have killed millions upon millions in the name of God, or religion.
This is when I really have to question your intelligence,
I don't have to question yours. Your fuzzy thought has revealed it. Hopefully you will get a good education and grow out of it and stop being such a hero worshipping follower.
And it doesn't matter what their religious beliefs are, the person is evil, but not because of their atheism. Do you claim the child molesting priests are evil because of their religion? No they are evil because they are sick and perverted having nothing to do with their religion.
As a matter of fact it has everything to do with their religion and the way the priests who committed such evil acts were sheltered and protected by the leadership of the Catholic Church.
So all you are saying is that there were atheists(controversial) that killed a bunch of people,
Not controversial at all.
You guys started this nonsense about all the people killed in the name of Christianity and how enlightened atheists are. The fact is, atheists are the authors of most of the major genocides of the 20th century so many atheists are not terribly enlightened:).
so therefore(using Vlad's flawed logic) all atheism is evil and therefore all atheists are evil. I could use the same logic in religious beliefs, but it is completely logically fallacious.
Atheists are misguided. I never said that all atheists are evil. For that to be untrue I would only have to find one who wasn't evil. I know lots of atheists who are not evil. They also manage to avoid the fuzzy thinking that you and most of the representatives of atheism on chess talk seem to exhibit.
Are there any people with religious beliefs (aside from the AGW Gaians) who believe that AGW is not a scam? So far all of the most vocal AGW supporters on Chesstalk have revealed that they are atheists. That is an interesting statistic.
It was actually a political comment regarding funding.
Of course it would be but I think improved funding would come much too late in Ed's Case.
Tonight, I went to get a hair cut. Some guy was spouting off about how the current Mayor of Windsor was going to lose the coming election. I think that he is going to win with a 70% or better majority. They did find someone with name recognition to run against him but I think that it is going to be no contest. The woman cutting his hair was agreeing with everything he said though there was little enthusiasm in her voice.
He also mentioned that the Mayor's house got spray paint bombed by his friend who was one of the garbage men that was going to be laid off by the city due to outsourcing of garbage pickup. He did a lot of chuckling about that. Terrorist.
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