The One and Only Climate Change thread...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

    Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
    I should believe an atheist and disbelieve the private record of Hitler's thought. Hitler was a master manipulator who used the German's beliefs to enhance his power. If they believed in God he made himself appear to believe with them. You can try to rewrite history all you want but a few internet quotes do not overcome a mountain of historical writings.



    It is a religion. Science is one of its gods. The scientists are its high priests and its minor gods. Gore is one of its false prophets.



    A lot of nonsense was spouted. I don't have time to refute every idiotic statement from every fuzzy thinking atheist that you quote. I had been warned to expect it from what I read in "How Evil Works" but I didn't expect to encounter it so quickly.

    You need to grow up and get an education and you won't be impressed by nonsensical arguments and laughable credentials. Go out and get involved in some actual research that gets published and you won't have as much reverence for it. Better yet take some courses in philosophy and expand your mind.



    I never said they killed for atheism and that is how the author of that piece throws a red herring at you which you swallow along with the embedded hook, line and sinker. Their atheism is what allowed them to kill all those people. They were amoral sociopaths whose pathology was deeply rooted in their belief system.

    Why would Stalin want to kill an ally?



    You already said it but who died and made you an authority? Not all religions believe in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.



    The UN.



    You are wrong about their sanity at least from what I recall of my abnormal psychology classes. Those classes really come in handy when dealing with some of the AGW apologists like Ed.



    It can never be achieved because humans are not built that way.



    I don't have to question yours. Your fuzzy thought has revealed it. Hopefully you will get a good education and grow out of it and stop being such a hero worshipping follower.



    As a matter of fact it has everything to do with their religion and the way the priests who committed such evil acts were sheltered and protected by the leadership of the Catholic Church.



    Not controversial at all.

    You guys started this nonsense about all the people killed in the name of Christianity and how enlightened atheists are. The fact is, atheists are the authors of most of the major genocides of the 20th century so many atheists are not terribly enlightened:).



    Atheists are misguided. I never said that all atheists are evil. For that to be untrue I would only have to find one who wasn't evil. I know lots of atheists who are not evil. They also manage to avoid the fuzzy thinking that you and most of the representatives of atheism on chess talk seem to exhibit.
    I've actually met a couple climatologists and they aren't fans of Al Gore(I don't think many are, he makes some serious stupid mistakes in his video), so the AGW religion doesn't work like you think it does.

    "How Evil Works" by David Kupelian, I can't stand any of the authors you bring up. David Kupelian is really similar to an apocalyptic end-time religious wacko, claiming that America is being destroyed just because the right didn't win, he needs to calm down. fearing everything and everyone who is different from who he is.

    I wouldn't get your facts from someone like David Kupelian, who believes America was founded on core judeo-Christian values, nothing could be father from the truth. He might not realize this but the party of NO(Republicans) is really one of the worse parties in existence right now, they actually rejected health care for 9/11 first responders, leftists are the least of America's worries. He is right about one thing the rise of Atheism would shock previous generations because the whole world was basically brainwashed by their religion. He also seems to be a supporter of ID, I would distance myself from such persons. He also seems to have some problems with homosexuals, he seems to be the average member of the Christian-right(which is not a good thing).

    The Good Atheist on David Kupelian, the world daily news is just as bad if not worse then fox news.

    "Maybe our leaders would be more hesitant to go to war, if they didn't believe their soldiers went to heaven"- can't remember

    Telling me to get an education is actually quite similar to saying, go be a liberal(which you obviously don't want to happen), because liberals are on average more educated then their conservative counterparts, don't worry about my education I plan to become a university professor.

    Satoshi Kanazawa, Ph.D: That is the conclusion of my latest study because being liberal is evolutionarily novel. In a sense, humans are designed to be conservative and it’s unnatural for humans to be liberal, being concerned about the welfare of millions of genetically unrelated other people. So more intelligent people are more likely to acquire unnatural preferences and values and being a liberal is one of them and as a result more intelligent people tend to be more liberal than less intelligent people.

    His studies have also found that approximately 90% of scientists identify themselves as liberals.

    I plan to take a philosophy course in university, plus I already watch a lot pf lectures from Philosopher Dan C. Dennett as well as many other university professors.

    You have to stop referring to atheism as a religion/belief system, it isn't. There is no dogma, no superstition, atheists in general are freethinkers, secular humanists, and rationalists, logical empiricists, existentialists, skeptics, nihilists, all different kinds. Calling Atheism a belief system/religion is the same as calling bald a hair colour, or black(which is defined by physicists as the complete absence of colour) a colour. Some atheists don't even believe in evolution and are not scientifically informed.

    Hitler would have still killed millions(his Christian upbringing was the catalyst for the holocaust, the Roman Catholic church had an anti-Semitic doctrine until the mid 1960s, but even if that was not his upbringing he would have used a possibly different scapegoat to obtain more power) no matter what religion he was, Stalin would have still killed millions no matter what religion he was, Mao would have killed millions no matter what religion he was(he was a Taoist).

    So according to you the only reason these murderers killed was their atheism(or atleast it enabled them to do that), I go to a religious school currently, and even they don't teach that(which I'd assume they would because of the superiority of religious beliefs over atheism, apparently). I had a history course last year about WW2 and atheism was never brought up as one of the causes of WW2 or the holocaust.

    Also what about WW1, a lot of people died in that war and i don't think any of the leaders were non-religious(or atleast most of them were religious) so what allowed them to kill if it wasn't atheism? I don't know what happened but you have obtained some really bad idea from some fundamentalists(probably David Kupelian) to actually believe some of this stuff that makes absolutely no sense. Atheists are not bound to any common ideology or belief contrary to Bill O'reilly and Ann Coulter would have you believe.

    Well most Christians make Stalin out to be this atheist who just wants to destroy religious people for the sake of destroying religion, but that obviously wasn't true because he taught his own daughter about Christ. He wanted to get rid of religion for power reasons not atheistic ones.

    Humans might not be built that way, but we can adapt to changes(I thought you already believed this).

    Hero worshipping follower? I plan to surpass Dawkins, and become a voice of atheism. I want to watch religion vanish, as scientific discovery advances further and further. Your the one who is following lunatics, such as David Kupelian...what a nutcase(How can you take him seriously? It's similar to taking Ben Stein seriously).

    I was talking about the ACTS themselves(and what made them do it in the first place) not the aftermath(the sheltering and lying for example) you are talking about something completely different. But hopefully Dawkins and Hitchens succeed in arresting the Pope(Hitchens might be dead before that happens though).

    You're right it isn't controversial at all if you completely ignore the other side of the argument...good job.

    I still disagree with you, Hitler had quotes both ways, Stalin taught his own daughter about Christ, Mao Zedong was a Taoist, nothing really hard hitting for either side.

    Atheists are misguided? The Religious are the ones who believe in a fairy-tale. Religion is a crutch for man-kind for those who are so afraid of the unknown they make up any story imaginable to try to answer questions and then will never let these answers be questioned.

    "Philosophy is a question that may never be answered, Religion is an answer that may never be questioned".-not sure

    You do realize the side most opposed to AGW is the religious fundamentalists, Vlad? Because God's perfect world can't be effected by human activities...complete garbage, always remember that's the side you are on.
    Last edited by Adam Cormier; Wednesday, 25th August, 2010, 02:19 PM. Reason: added more info...
    University and Chess, a difficult mix.

    Comment


    • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

      Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
      Are there any people with religious beliefs (aside from the AGW Gaians) who believe that AGW is not a scam? So far all of the most vocal AGW supporters on Chesstalk have revealed that they are atheists. That is an interesting statistic.
      I'm the only one who has said I'm an atheist, you are making assumptions about Ed and Paul. Ed Seedhouse could also be more of an agnostic or just a skeptic rather then an atheist like myself(although he could be). Paul Beckwith had made no statement on his religious beliefs and has not taken part of the small side debate over religion.

      Also I'm sure there are plenty of religious people who have seen the facts for AGW and found it to be true. One of my friends is an atheist and he doesn't trust scientists and doesn't trust AGW to be true. There is clearly diversity on this topic, but most atheists are most likely going to be on the side of scientists because they are more informed on science then the religious.
      University and Chess, a difficult mix.

      Comment


      • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

        re : atheism and scientists

        i haven't gone to church since high school, but i'm tempted to follow Pascal's wager...

        "If God does not exist, one will lose nothing by believing in him, while if he does exist, one will lose everything by not believing."

        I agree about Muse BTW

        Comment


        • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

          Originally posted by Adam Cormier View Post
          He viewed religion as a threat to his power which is why he abolished it. The mass murderers were power hungry monsters, they killed for many reasons but not atheism.
          I think "communism" in the USSR and China were really just religions in disguise anyway. They show all the signs of being religions as soon as the cults of personality show up.

          Marx's view of what communism and socialism were is really quite different than their subsequent expressions in states that claimed to follow his ideas. I think Marx was mostly wrong, but to give him some fairness his theories were never actually tried out, and both the USSR and "Communist" China are best described, IMO, as slight variations on facism.

          On the other hand I hold no belief that Athiests in absolute power would necessarily be responsible for fewer deaths than the various religious absolute rulers. I think the problem is not the religions of absolute rulers, but the fact that they are absolute rulers in the first place.

          Comment


          • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

            Originally posted by Craig Sadler View Post
            "If God does not exist, one will lose nothing by believing in him, while if he does exist, one will lose everything by not believing."
            But if it turns our the One True God is, say, Zeus and you chose Yaheweh you would likely be even worse off. There are dozens or hundreds of gods, which one will you pick?

            If the one true God turns out to be the one the muslims believe in, then your belief in Christ might not help you much.

            Falling for "Pascal's Wager" is a sign of insufficient ability to think clearly.

            Comment


            • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

              Originally posted by Adam Cormier View Post
              I'm the only one who has said I'm an atheist, you are making assumptions about Ed and Paul. Ed Seedhouse could also be more of an agnostic or just a skeptic rather then an atheist.
              I am neither a believer, nor an athiest, nor an agnostic. What I am doesn't fit into any of these catagories, and I feel no need to name it.

              Comment


              • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post
                ...

                Falling for "Pascal's Wager" is a sign of insufficient ability to think clearly.
                i think that's a little harsh...at worst it's probably just laziness...at best it's playing the odds. :)

                Comment


                • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                  Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                  Won't happen. This keeps it away from other threads.
                  Have you ever noticed at the zoo they keep the skunks off to the side? Same idea here.
                  Now I have to admit there is a (big) positive side in this thread! :D

                  I guess you like good-old-Glen:

                  Arguing

                  Comment


                  • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                    Originally posted by Craig Sadler View Post
                    re : atheism and scientists

                    i haven't gone to church since high school, but i'm tempted to follow Pascal's wager...

                    "If God does not exist, one will lose nothing by believing in him, while if he does exist, one will lose everything by not believing."

                    I agree about Muse BTW
                    Pascal's wager makes some outrageous claims, it believes that God rewards belief not good deeds, the atheist's wager which Dawkins has used on occasion makes more sense. Pascal's wager makes God out to be rather vain in that the only way to get into heaven is too believe in him. Good actions and how you live your life would be more sensible criteria for salvation then blind faith/belief. So religion is pointless, because every human should have the ability to be good without being told to do so(a.k.a. common good) unless you believe humans are naturally evil(which goes against evolutionary theory anyways because tribe mentality suggests we do care about our fellow man).

                    Also about Pascal's wager, Homer Simpson makes an actual intelligent statement, "what if every week we're praying to the wrong God and the real one is just getting madder and madder". So believing can lead to the same % of salvation as not believing, it should be the life of the person that comes into context for God if he exists.

                    I'm glad there is someone else who appreciates Muse:).
                    Last edited by Adam Cormier; Wednesday, 25th August, 2010, 03:18 PM.
                    University and Chess, a difficult mix.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                      Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post
                      I think "communism" in the USSR and China were really just religions in disguise anyway. They show all the signs of being religions as soon as the cults of personality show up.

                      Marx's view of what communism and socialism were is really quite different than their subsequent expressions in states that claimed to follow his ideas. I think Marx was mostly wrong, but to give him some fairness his theories were never actually tried out, and both the USSR and "Communist" China are best described, IMO, as slight variations on facism.

                      On the other hand I hold no belief that Athiests in absolute power would necessarily be responsible for fewer deaths than the various religious absolute rulers. I think the problem is not the religions of absolute rulers, but the fact that they are absolute rulers in the first place.
                      Bill Maher also talked about how communism was a state-mandatory religion.

                      I absolutely agree false communism is so similar to fascism you could suggest it is a sub-variation of fascism.

                      Karl Marx's true communism has never been tried and until it is we won't know if it will work or not.

                      Atheists or theists both have the same ability to kill as any other human, its really about the reasons why they killed then the person themselves, power corrupts the mind.
                      Last edited by Adam Cormier; Wednesday, 25th August, 2010, 03:48 PM.
                      University and Chess, a difficult mix.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                        Originally posted by Adam Cormier View Post
                        You are correct Hell wouldn't exist with an all-loving God, the very existence of hell is illogical(punished for infinity, for finite sins seem rather odd to me).
                        I didn't say that.

                        Hell has it's advantages. Another place for a union. I figure the negotiation of the contract would be interesting. :) I knew a guy who carried around 2 books. The Union Bylaws and book with the current Contract.

                        In any case, some people are so full of themselves they think they are Gawds.

                        Now I must run. I'm working on a CC game and Caissa calls....
                        Gary Ruben
                        CC - IA and SIM

                        Comment


                        • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                          Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                          I doubt it. I read your comments about Gawd loving everyone. If that were the case there wouldn't be a hell. For a preview, take a walk through the furnace part of a steel mill. It gives warming a whole new perspective.

                          Regarding he bible which you have mentioned, as far as I can recall the only part Gawd produced is the 10 commandments which it's said he gave to Moses. The other parts of the bible have been subject to changes in view of the Dead Sea Scrolls and translations.
                          Actually Gary that is exactly what you said, read quote^.

                          If God loved everyone, there would not be a hell.
                          University and Chess, a difficult mix.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                            Originally posted by Adam Cormier View Post
                            Karl Marx's true communism has never been tried and until it is we won't know if it will work or not.
                            Well, I'd bet off hand that it wouldn't. But actually the so-called "libertarians" today believe in the fading away of the state just as Marx did when you pin them down. At least the ones I have talked to say they do.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                              Originally posted by Adam Cormier View Post
                              Karl Marx's true communism has never been tried and until it is we won't know if it will work or not.
                              It was tried out. What we got was Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro and a host of other dictators.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                                Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
                                It was tried out. What we got was Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro and a host of other dictators.
                                None of whom ever tried either socialism or communism, as anybody who has done a little reading will know.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X