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Your knucklehead act is too much. There are in fact books on Curling that discuss strategy, and courses run by the O.C.A. ( curling ) that include a section on strategy.
In fact, I am quite certain we could present common scenarios in Curling and you would have no clue what the usual best call is, or what the best alternatives are.
A shot is also influenced by the calls ( from the thrower and the skip ) during said sweeping, and the ice surface which is somewhat irregular in nature and must be read. Failure to correctly read the ice surface can make a shot that is thrown perfectly with perfect sweeping to miss the result partially or entirely.
Further complicating matters is the same ice surface changes in nature during the game.
For example, the pebble ( which makes a rock curl ) will wear down on the slide path and this will be of importance particularily late in a game.
Physics plays a part in Curling as well. Understanding angles and some less obvious aspects like drag will impact on success as well.
In fact, I am quite certain we could present common scenarios in Curling and you would have no clue what the usual best call is, or what the best alternatives are.
When a rink chokes, the way the women did in the gold medal game, who cares what the best shot happens to be?
In chess the move is finished by release of a finger. A thrower move might be adjusted by sweepers.
Years ago Gerry Forbes pointed out a fundamental difference between chess and hockey as games played in a game space.
In hockey, you shoot the puck and see if it goes in. In chess, you see if the puck goes in, and then shoot. Chess is played in a fundamentally different "game space" from that of hockey. I would say the "game space" in curling is closer to that of hockey.
This is probably basic stuff for game theoreticians... and the terminology is probably wrong... but lack of technical knowledge doesn't stop others from posting here... :)
Strategy? What "strategy"? Save your precious green papers. In curling there's NO strategy. Just two words "peel" and "hard". Ask manager of "Strategy Games and Accessories" if they have any curling books or videos. I want to see his facial reaction. :)
Strategy? What "strategy"? Save your precious green papers. In curling there's NO strategy. Just two words "peel" and "hard". Ask manager of "Strategy Games and Accessories" if they have any curling books or videos. I want to see his facial reaction. :)
If it's always the same strategy, why would people watch it in such great numbers? Apparently these latest Winter Olympics have caused a huge spike of interest in curling here in the States, with sports bars showing it and people coming out to the bars in great numbers to watch it. But in Canada, it's been popular for decades, and that means the strategy must be varied enough to captivate people's interest. If it's always just peeling off guard rocks until the end, where's the hook? (that might even be a pun, if "hook" is a curling term).
BTW, one could just as easily denigrate chess for being nothing but strategy. Where in real life can you make a strategic decision and be 100% sure it will happen just as you visualized it? You could decide to drive to a store and buy something, and be hit by a speeding Hummer from the Montreal area on the way there. A chess move is always made, no element of chance at all. A curling shot? More like real life.
But chess is nevertheless a beautiful and virtually infinite game, and shouldn't be denigrated the way you do curling.
There are curling books, at least I found some on Amazon. And on youtube, there's videos explaining curling or demonstrating it. But full match videos with commentary explaining the strategies involved, haven't found that anywhere.
I did find, on Amazon, a 3D Curling simulation program (currently out of stock) for Vista or XP PCs:
In terms of "game space", Curling is definately much closer to chess by your description.
I don't know why you think otherwise it doesn't make sense to anyone who is an experienced Curler at the competitive level. I don't think you are understanding the decision making process that accompanies the selection of shots. Perhaps it is the speed of decisions of experienced players that is fooling you.
At the club level we sometimes only get 7 ends in because the opposing skip takes ages to select shots.
Your knucklehead act is too much. There are in fact books on Curling that discuss strategy, and courses run by the O.C.A. ( curling ) that include a section on strategy.
In fact, I am quite certain we could present common scenarios in Curling and you would have no clue what the usual best call is, or what the best alternatives are.
I've never curled, but definitely enjoy watching top games on TV. I try to consider "next moves" even though I am limited by not completely understanding what is possible or impossible.
It seems that curling would require a lot of imagination, visualization and, yes, even strategy. One of my favorite parts is when they take some time to discuss their next moves. It's fascinating that the TV experts and the skips don't always agree. Listening to these differences of opinion, it's hard to argue that there's no strategy.
Chess players enjoy a marginalized activity and shouldn't feel they have the luxury to put down other hobbies or sports to boost our own game. We can only wish chess was as widely enjoyed as curling.
Funny you should mention that. There is an ongoing debate on a Curling forum that she chose the wrong shot on her second last shot in the 11th which cost her the game. That shot likely should have been a draw to the top eight circle choking off the easiest raise.
In the 10th, execution was a big factor but again the weight she chose to play was likely a mistake. Nerves were a factor they needed to call a timeout and properly analyze the situation.
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Thursday, 4th March, 2010, 08:29 AM.
You are right visualization is a huge factor to make the most difficult shots and I consider it one of my main strengths when I curl. There are so many little factors that have to come together to make a very difficult shot but if you can visualize it you make far more then one might think.
Strategy tends to become somewhat intuitive after many years of play. A strong skip has already analyzed most of the possibilities before it is time to throw. An inexperienced club level skip can take minutes to analyze very basic situations.
In terms of "game space", Curling is definately much closer to chess by your description.
I don't know why you think otherwise it doesn't make sense to anyone who is an experienced Curler at the competitive level. I don't think you are understanding the decision making process that accompanies the selection of shots. Perhaps it is the speed of decisions of experienced players that is fooling you.
At the club level we sometimes only get 7 ends in because the opposing skip takes ages to select shots.
Maybe you should introduce chess clocks to curling... ;)
Now I am envisioning 'blitz curling' ... how much do those stones weigh?!
Found on the web:
"The curling stone or rock used in the game weighs a maximum of 44 lbs. (19.96 kg) and is fitted with a handle on top allowing it to be rotated as it is released.
The Scots in particular believe that the best quality curling stones are made from a specific type of granite called "Ailsite", found on the Ailsa Craig, an island off the Ayrshire coast. Most curling stones are made from this granite. Because of the particular rarity of Ailsite, costs for curling stones can reach as much as $500 (CAD)."
There was a piece on CTV during the olympics about this quarrying operation that was pretty interesting.
You may know that top games are timed. I seem to remember, again from the olympics, that each side had 75 minutes. They can also call a timeout to talk things over with their coach. The times remaining are displayed with the running scores.
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