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CFC Member Inactivity/Lack of Interest in CFC Program
The way I understand this, it is not about allowing ordinary members to attend CFC executive meetings or anything like that. No one I believe would want that. It is about allowing members to be "heard" in one way or another in principle. And if as you claim even governors have no right to be heard, what would be the point for a member to present his problem to a governor (which seems to be the intention behind this bylaw) or even be a governor ? There may be simpler and more efficient ways to move forward than always present motions through governors. Sometimes a simple exchange of views does the trick.
An ordinary citizen can contact the Prime Minister or any other member of government directly by letter or email for example. The bylaw that we are discussing seems to imply that at the CFC it is not possible for members to talk to the CFC leaders, which makes no sense to me at all.
We read this differently then--
Of course members have a right to free speech, we could not deprive them of that if we tried ;). Same for freedom of association.
But a right to be heard just doesn't make much sense to me, if someone is speaking uninformed giberish I will ignore them, as I'm sure you would also.
The bylaw just gives us a means to throw the crazies out of a meeting, as I see it.
We certainly don't prevent members from discussing issues and expressing viewpoints, be it to the governors or anyone else.
Something not being a right does not mean it can't be done; If anyone wants to be heard they need only speak in a compelling and convincing manner, be they governor or member. As I said, I know some governors ignore most of Bob A. posts; does that mean his rights have been violated? of course not.
If someone has no power, then they will have little interest. Not even enough interest to tell me they're not interested - they just vote with their feet as are most CFC members - they're just absent and silent and don't participate and don't care about the CFC program ( other than ratings ).
If you want the members to talk to you as a govenor re CFC affairs, give them some real influence and power - then you'll hear from them.
s. 14 is oppressive and sets the whole tone for the organization. Needs to be repealed as Governor Ken Craft has posted, and it is great to see that the CFC President, Bob G, has given his blessing to this little project of the Cooperative Chess Coalition. We will be drafting some type of repealing motion for the 2011 Spring Meeting ( April ).
s. 14 is oppressive and sets the whole tone for the organization. Needs to be repealed as Governor Ken Craft has posted, and it is great to see that the CFC President, Bob G, has given his blessing to this little project of the Cooperative Chess Coalition. We will be drafting some type of repealing motion for the 2011 Spring Meeting ( April ).
Bob
You really think so? What more power would the members have if it was repealed?
First of all, members wouldn't be theoretically fobbed off on the Provincial Affiliate ( CFC ignores this aspect of s. 14 , but it shouldn't be there if it is not wanted ).
Secondly, we will be looking for mechanisms that will allow members to bring motions that all the governors are against ! The member won't have to find 2 governors to move/second their motion - begging and pleading and paying bribes. They will have the " right " to put a motion on the agenda of the Quarterly or AGM meetings.
Re: CFC Member Inactivity/Lack of Interest in CFC Program
Bob A. - well sure I agree that this clause should be repealed. It is simply not relevant. It sends the wrong message.
But Stuart is 100% correct. It is irrelevant. Nothing will change. The nude lunatic crazies will be ignored whatever rights the constitution gives them. It simply doesn't matter. :)
Bob A. - well sure I agree that this clause should be repealed. It is simply not relevant. It sends the wrong message.
But Stuart is 100% correct. It is irrelevant. Nothing will change. The nude lunatic crazies will be ignored whatever rights the constitution gives them. It simply doesn't matter. :)
First of all I think we can all agree that as a collective, chess players are far too unathletic to entertain the idea of nude anything. Secondly, even if we take this out of the constitution it doesn't mean that anyone is then entitled to anyone's time. As Stuart pointed out, it could be valuable in ignoring the garbage spewn by people who just want to cause trouble. However, a more politically correct rewording may be in order, as well as something which ensures that it's only the people who are trying to cause trouble that are ignored.
Re: CFC Member Inactivity/Lack of Interest in CFC Program
You know, to be honest, I didn't read this post, but I think the problem here is quite clear. Tonight I watched some live Starcraft, and instead of the usual commercials between games, it was instead interspersed with weird Korean webcam streams. I saw such fascinating things as:
Teenage Korean girl eating a weird looking burger, burping a lot and responding to people insulting her on the internet in Korean.
Korean girl busting out crazy dance moves for like 10 minutes straight in her room to some weird song.
Korean kid + Korean old man eating a large meal and talking into a webcam. I'm not sure what they were talking about, since it was in Korean, but it was pretty sweet.
What does chess have to compare to this? It has NOTHING. WAY TO GO, GUYS.
If someone has no power, then they will have little interest. Not even enough interest to tell me they're not interested - they just vote with their feet as are most CFC members - they're just absent and silent and don't participate and don't care about the CFC program ( other than ratings ).
If you want the members to talk to you as a govenor re CFC affairs, give them some real influence and power - then you'll hear from them.
s. 14 is oppressive and sets the whole tone for the organization. Needs to be repealed as Governor Ken Craft has posted, and it is great to see that the CFC President, Bob G, has given his blessing to this little project of the Cooperative Chess Coalition. We will be drafting some type of repealing motion for the 2011 Spring Meeting ( April ).
Bob
Bob you are still speaking "in general" - but I want specifics. Name one person who has ever quit as a CFC member, or refused to play in a CFC rated tournament, just because of this bylaw.
My point is, base your arguments on the actual merits or lack thereof, and don't try to invent excuses for why it should or shouldn't be in the handbook.
Re: CFC Member Inactivity/Lack of Interest in CFC Program
The clause appears to be a relic of the early days of the CFC. The vision was that the CFC was a Federation of Provincial Associations. Thus, a member's natural point of contact was perceived as the provincial association. The original vision seems more honoured in the breach. The clause is not relavanta and is off-putting.
I played in a couple of tournaments in the '60s where these people showed up. Not a pretty sight. Back then we just called them the nude crazies since lunatic crazies was considered redundant.
Last edited by Peter McKillop; Tuesday, 15th February, 2011, 11:51 AM.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Re: CFC Member Inactivity/Lack of Interest in CFC Program
Finally, some sane commentary. Thanks, Lucas.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
The clause appears to be a relic of the early days of the CFC. The vision was that the CFC was a Federation of Provincial Associations. Thus, a member's natural point of contact was perceived as the provincial association. The original vision seems more honoured in the breach. The clause is not relavanta and is off-putting.
Interesting.
I thought it was from a time when the CFC had many more members, chess was more popular and with the technology of the day a member didn't have a realistic chance of being heard without the local governor. The clause was probably in the first bylaws and sent with the incorporation documents.
These days there seem to be fewer membership. You could probably use first names in your publication and everyone would know to whom it referred.
Secondly, we will be looking for mechanisms that will allow members to bring motions that all the governors are against ! The member won't have to find 2 governors to move/second their motion - begging and pleading and paying bribes. They will have the " right " to put a motion on the agenda of the Quarterly or AGM meetings.
Why would you want motions all the governors are against to be on the agenda? They'll just get voted down, and waste time.
I think if you are looking to make this organization more democratic your time would be better spent looking for some way to try and get members to actually vote for their governors-- say through online elections or some such.
I thought it was from a time when the CFC had many more members, chess was more popular and with the technology of the day a member didn't have a realistic chance of being heard without the local governor. The clause was probably in the first bylaws and sent with the incorporation documents.
These days there seem to be fewer membership. You could probably use first names in your publication and everyone would know to whom it referred.
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