2011 CYCC Financial Report

[Kerry Liles]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

Indeed, to manage collecting 42 000$ in entry fees from the players parents while spending only 11 000$ is quite a feat! From a business perspective there is certainly something to say in favour of the FIDE system that has been put in place with these Youth championships. However from a youth development perspective, this is total fiasco. The bulk of those monies will be spent in airline tickets, hotel rooms and FIDE fees of all sorts, with no or little benefit for the kids chess development.
This is not meant as criticism of the CYCC organisation who apparently
did very well within a framework which was not their responsibility.

Valid enough Jean. I was mostly remarking about the balance between income and expenses. You are correct in wondering about the overall objectives of the 'program' and whether it is a wise use of money (a lot of money usually) to pay the way for a one or a few players to the WYCC. Given the constraints, the organizers did a very impressive job delivering what was currently required.

If the CYCC included some sort of concurrent 'chess camp' with teaching sessions etc. (that would be funded from the entry fees) that might be a better model. If the only objective is to select and subsidize a handful of players for the WYCC, then the organizers are perhaps lucky there are so many parents willing to participate in the whole deal.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

If the only objective is to select and subsidize a handful of players for the WYCC, then the organizers are perhaps lucky there are so many parents willing to participate in the whole deal.

IMHO, that one of the main purposes - a fundraiser for the WYCC. Otherwise, the entry fee could be much lower. (the same for Canadian Closed.)

[Kerry Liles]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

IMHO, that one of the main purposes - a fundraiser for the WYCC. Otherwise, the entry fee could be much lower. (the same for Canadian Closed.)

That may be, but I wonder if the CYCC is being "sold" more as a National Championship (for each age group) and by the way, we collect high entry fees to subsidize some of the winners to the WYCC... I am not sure the two goals should be conflated. The difference with the Canadian Closed is the major difference between kids+parents versus seasoned players (adults) - not quite the same focus group.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

Curious why early bird players receive both a discount and a gift bag?

How is the playing facility a cost of zero?

Those early registrants are golden. They reduce the organizers level of uncertainty by a great margin. When you are starting out there is a lot of uncertainty as to whether anyone is even going to show up. I'm not sure about the particulars of this situation but there are also situations where sponsors donate gifts which require the participants who wish to receive that gift to do something like stay in a particular hotel or in an area of the city. Rents for facilities are based on a sliding scale which may incorporate targets for hotel rooms booked and may include requirements of buying a certain amount of food in the host hotel. If you book enough rooms and sell enough food then the facilities don't cost you anything.

[Kerry Liles]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

Those early registrants are golden. They reduce the organizers level of uncertainty by a great margin. When you are starting out there is a lot of uncertainty as to whether anyone is even going to show up. I'm not sure about the particulars of this situation but there are also situations where sponsors donate gifts which require the participants who wish to receive that gift to do something like stay in a particular hotel or in an area of the city. Rents for facilities are based on a sliding scale which may incorporate targets for hotel rooms booked and may include requirements of buying a certain amount of food in the host hotel. If you book enough rooms and sell enough food then the facilities don't cost you anything.

That is a great arrangement, although it must be nerve-wracking for the organizers!

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

IMHO, that one of the main purposes - a fundraiser for the WYCC. Otherwise, the entry fee could be much lower.

If that were the case then the tournament would only be held where the entries would be maximized and more money would flow to the fund for the WYCC.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

Indeed, to manage collecting 42 000$ in entry fees from the players parents while spending only 11 000$ is quite a feat! From a business perspective there is certainly something to say in favour of the FIDE system that has been put in place with these Youth championships. However from a youth development perspective, this is total fiasco. The bulk of those monies will be spent in airline tickets, hotel rooms and FIDE fees of all sorts, with no or little benefit for the kids chess development.
This is not meant as criticism of the CYCC organisation who apparently
did very well within a framework which was not their responsibility.

I am not sure that there is little benefit as far as the children's chess development. I know Minya Bai one of our Friday night kids for the Sobey's class who finished 2nd in her age category last year at the CYCC and went to Greece came back very noticably energized in her chess development. She started beating people who she had trouble with previously and all of the adult coaches noticed an obvious improvement in her play. I think she was also an inspiration to some of the other kids who ramped up their game in order to compete with her. I think that her example was one that inspired the other kids to see what was possible if they worked hard.

[Victor Itkine]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

IMHO: a prize fund should be expenses for organizers.

We have decided to indicate the prize fund in the 3rd part of the 2011 CYCC Financial Report - Profit Distribution.

It will be posted soon.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

Valid enough Jean. I was mostly remarking about the balance between income and expenses. You are correct in wondering about the overall objectives of the 'program' and whether it is a wise use of money (a lot of money usually) to pay the way for a one or a few players to the WYCC. Given the constraints, the organizers did a very impressive job delivering what was currently required.

If the CYCC included some sort of concurrent 'chess camp' with teaching sessions etc. (that would be funded from the entry fees) that might be a better model. If the only objective is to select and subsidize a handful of players for the WYCC, then the organizers are perhaps lucky there are so many parents willing to participate in the whole deal.

From what I saw there was a master strength player provided who did analysis of the children's games. I am not sure that there would be time for a chess camp given the fairly aggressive two game a day schedule. Windsor had grandmaster Mark Bluvshtein in the same role as an analyst of the kids games and watching him work his magic was very instructive to me. I have been applying his methods ever since.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

I am not sure that there is little benefit as far as the children's chess development. I know Minya Bai one of our Friday night kids for the Sobey's class who finished 2nd in her age category last year at the CYCC and went to Greece came back very noticably energized in her chess development.

If we have to send kids barely above beginner level halfway around the world to get them to the next level, I say this is irrational spending, regardless of where the money comes from. Ressources must be better used than that.
The bulk of the learning process in chess should be made BETWEEN tournaments, not during tournaments which serve above all to test players and see where they are. There has to be good reasons (sufficient playing strenght regardless of age) to spend huge amounts of money to send kids to foreign tournaments when they could play and learn 10x more in domestic events coupled with good coaching incurring equal or less expenses.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

If that were the case then the tournament would only be held where the entries would be maximized and more money would flow to the fund for the WYCC.

The tournaments are held where organizers are willing to run tournaments.
+ the fundraising is not a single purpose. CYCC is for Championship after all.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

That may be, but I wonder if the CYCC is being "sold" more as a National Championship (for each age group) and by the way, we collect high entry fees to subsidize some of the winners to the WYCC.

Disagree. The website clearly said that it is not only a Championship (it did not mention "National" on the main page, only in a flyer "National Champions" :D

http://www.2011cycc.ca
http://www.2011cycc.ca/2011CYCCFlyerfinal.pdf

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

We have decided to indicate the prize fund in the 3rd part of the 2011 CYCC Financial Report - Profit Distribution.

It will be posted soon.

No problem. Hope you'll solve the issues with CFC and you'll come back in the near future with another CYCC :)

[David Ottosen]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

Exactly. After reaching 300 nights it became free.

Very nice work on the part of the organizers to secure a deal like this. Well done!

[Paul Leblanc]

Re: 2011 CYCC Financial Report

Jean raises some interesting points. While true that all the profits go towards expenses to send our champions to the WYCC, Pan Am and North American championships, is there another option to spend some of the funds on programmes that give a better bang for the buck for our winners?