If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Policy / Politique
The fee for tournament organizers advertising on ChessTalk is $20/event or $100/yearly unlimited for the year.
Les frais d'inscription des organisateurs de tournoi sur ChessTalk sont de 20 $/événement ou de 100 $/année illimitée.
You can etransfer to Henry Lam at chesstalkforum at gmail dot com
Transfér à Henry Lam à chesstalkforum@gmail.com
Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
General Guidelines
---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
Some Basics
1. Under Board "Frequently Asked Questions" (FAQs) there are 3 sections dealing with General Forum Usage, User Profile Features, and Reading and Posting Messages. These deal with everything from Avatars to Your Notifications. Most general technical questions are covered there. Here is a link to the FAQs. https://forum.chesstalk.com/help
2. Consider using the SEARCH button if you are looking for information. You may find your question has already been answered in a previous thread.
3. If you've looked for an answer to a question, and not found one, then you should consider asking your question in a new thread. For example, there have already been questions and discussion regarding: how to do chess diagrams (FENs); crosstables that line up properly; and the numerous little “glitches” that every new site will have.
4. Read pinned or sticky threads, like this one, if they look important. This applies especially to newcomers.
5. Read the thread you're posting in before you post. There are a variety of ways to look at a thread. These are covered under “Display Modes”.
6. Thread titles: please provide some details in your thread title. This is useful for a number of reasons. It helps ChessTalk members to quickly skim the threads. It prevents duplication of threads. And so on.
7. Unnecessary thread proliferation (e.g., deliberately creating a new thread that duplicates existing discussion) is discouraged. Look to see if a thread on your topic may have already been started and, if so, consider adding your contribution to the pre-existing thread. However, starting new threads to explore side-issues that are not relevant to the original subject is strongly encouraged. A single thread on the Canadian Open, with hundreds of posts on multiple sub-topics, is no better than a dozen threads on the Open covering only a few topics. Use your good judgment when starting a new thread.
8. If and/or when sub-forums are created, please make sure to create threads in the proper place.
Debate
9. Give an opinion and back it up with a reason. Throwaway comments such as "Game X pwnz because my friend and I think so!" could be considered pointless at best, and inflammatory at worst.
10. Try to give your own opinions, not simply those copied and pasted from reviews or opinions of your friends.
Unacceptable behavior and warnings
11. In registering here at ChessTalk please note that the same or similar rules apply here as applied at the previous Boardhost message board. In particular, the following content is not permitted to appear in any messages:
* Racism
* Hatred
* Harassment
* Adult content
* Obscene material
* Nudity or pornography
* Material that infringes intellectual property or other proprietary rights of any party
* Material the posting of which is tortious or violates a contractual or fiduciary obligation you or we owe to another party
* Piracy, hacking, viruses, worms, or warez
* Spam
* Any illegal content
* unapproved Commercial banner advertisements or revenue-generating links
* Any link to or any images from a site containing any material outlined in these restrictions
* Any material deemed offensive or inappropriate by the Board staff
12. Users are welcome to challenge other points of view and opinions, but should do so respectfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Posts and threads with unacceptable content can be closed or deleted altogether. Furthermore, a range of sanctions are possible - from a simple warning to a temporary or even a permanent banning from ChessTalk.
Helping to Moderate
13. 'Report' links (an exclamation mark inside a triangle) can be found in many places throughout the board. These links allow users to alert the board staff to anything which is offensive, objectionable or illegal. Please consider using this feature if the need arises.
Advice for free
14. You should exercise the same caution with Private Messages as you would with any public posting.
That's a lot easier to say when you're not the one who has to answer the call from the sponsor asking why, despite their insistence that a proper dress code be followed, the players all showed up however they wanted to look. It's also a good way to ensure that the sponsorship is one-off.
The last time I watched poker on TV, which was some time ago, there was a young lady with a very low cut dress. I kept watching to see if the Olive was the only thing which would end up in the Martini.
Serious people know that when you deal with independant minded people like sportsmen, artists, actors, or even poker players you cannot impose a dress code.
yeah, there's totally not a dress code in effect there. they just happened to all put on the same outfit that day
everytime it hurts, it hurts just like the first (and then you cry till there's no more tears)
Paul you are to be thanked for posting such an insightful commentary on ChessTalk! I know several intelligent people who refuse to post because they do not want to immerse themselves in the petty mud slinging that goes on here.
I do feel that if someone wishes to pursue a career in a 'mere game' such as chess then they have every right to do so. However, they should return value when they are paid to do so. Simply being a good player and making good moves is not enough one must also entertain. The people who pay for the pro's participation do not do so in order to be insulted. A chess pro who insults organisers and lesser players should not expect to be invited to tournaments solely based on their ability to find good moves.
Poker organisers understand this. If you watch televised poker you will see far more outrageous play than actually occur in real poker. In real poker its fold, fold and fold some more. On television, that doesn't get you invited for repeat performances.
I know backgammon players who could compete with the very best players but never get the lucrative side games because all they do is hunch over the board and scrutinize the strongest moves in order to squeeze the last penny of equity from a position. They are' in a word, boring!
Now if you look at dressing up as just another game or giving respect to the game and the organisers/sponsors. Then it need not be so painful.
I take it you probably prefer to dress casually - most science people I have known consider sloppy/casual as their right. Did Einstein ever comb his hair?
I suspect that if you ever win the Nobel Prize in your field that the first thing you do when you get to Oslo is go out and rent a tuxedo! Am I right?
I thank you again for posting on ChessTalk.
Thanks, Vlad, and keep up with the good organizing work which is thankless enough without Hebert piling on such bitter thoughts.
I am not against dressing formally if one chooses, I'm just against mandating dress codes. For a Nobel Prize, fine, but for a chess tournament, its overkill.
I'm also not in favor of mandating that no one should pursue chess as a career. In our free capitalistic society here in North America, the marketplace can decide this. I would not ever prohibit it. But... I strongly discourage it. I encourage people to NOT spend their monies or their lives on professional games, whether it be chess or football or hockey or basketball or golf or even a game I happen to like a lot, tennis. I am all in favor of these games in an amateur setting. But once it becomes professional, then all kinds of resources get devoted to it that would be better spent (from a societal viewpoint) on science or technology or health care -- things that really advance a society. Games should be a sideline activity, not an entire world unto themselves separate from reality and sucking vital resources, including people's entire lives and talents.
Unfortunately, the marketplace has decided otherwise. Living with that is part of adjusting oneself to the world one finds oneself in. When one realizes that this world isn't our true home, and that we are all here only to do some learning, then one can live with the distortions and the injustices. The learning part is something Jean Hebert has a long way to go to achieve. We are each on our own path and our own timeline. No one is "better" than another. I try to help Jean, but it may take his life review for him to experience the hurt he has dished out and be truly sorry for it.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
I do not see what would be the problem with having "some code" whatever that would mean, but I wonder what kind of "truth of the matter" you came up with. Did you really have to say, just guessing, that chessplayers dress sloppily, sometimes showing up in tournaments half naked in their underwears ? You may not have misrepresented chess, but you probably failed to present reality in a smart way as to close the deal and go on with it. When someone comes up with a vague idea of a dress code, you say "of course" and quickly move beyond to deal with the serious stuff. Serious people know that when you deal with independant minded people like sportsmen, artists, actors, or even poker players you cannot impose a dress code. On the contrary you want them to express their creativity and their individuality, within socially accepted behaviour. Chess players do that just fine.
I do not remember my exact words, but since we were trying to get financial sponsorship I am sure I chose the best possible response that I could think of at the time. Probably something to the effect that the players dress casually. Their notion of a dress code was not vague, they explicited requested suits, jacket and tie, something to that effect. I told them I would speak to the powers that be and get back to them. There was not sufficient will on the part of the executive and governors at that time to mandate the dress code that would have been required for the sponsorship. Their arguments were to the effect that such a code would be difficult to legislate and enforce.
I do not remember my exact words, but since we were trying to get financial sponsorship I am sure I chose the best possible response that I could think of at the time. Probably something to the effect that the players dress casually. Their notion of a dress code was not vague, they explicited requested suits, jacket and tie, something to that effect.
I am sure you did the best you could at the time. But put in the same situation NOW, would you have the same responses ? Faced with a sponsor talking suits ans ties, wouldn't you have something specific to respond in order to overcome that objection and close the deal ? Between suits and ties and t-shirts and sneakers, isn't there room for finding a common ground where the players have some liberty to dress comfortably while the sponsor has players dressed correctly ? Surely sponsors are reasonable people that can recognize that enforcing a dress code too rigidly would be not only difficult but counter productive. It is perfectly possible to look like a clown in a Don Cherry suit and tie, for example.
Last edited by Jean Hébert; Wednesday, 21st September, 2011, 11:38 AM.
I am sure you did the best you could at the time. But put in the same situation NOW, would you have the same responses ? Faced with a sponsor talking suits ans ties, wouldn't you have something specific to respond in order to overcome that objection and close the deal ? Between suits and ties and t-shirts and sneakers, isn't there room for finding a common ground where the players have some liberty to dress comfortably while the sponsor has players dressed correctly ? Surely sponsors are reasonable people that can recognize that enforcing a dress code too rigidly would be not only difficult but counter productive. It is perfectly possible to look like a clown in a Don Cherry suit and tie, for example.
Well, since I was an employee without the power to make rule changes it was my job simply to seek sponsorships and report on my results, which is what I did. Corel and the CIBC both asked for suits, so this is what I reported to those with the power to change the rules. It would not have been my prerogative to say to the potential sponsors that I could have an effect upon how the players dressed, since I could not. My duty was to report my findings and let the powers that be handle it.
Of course, one might argue that the executive, fearing the difficulty of legislating suits, should have instructed me to call these companies back and seek some middle ground. But even then, if some middle ground had been agreed upon by either of the companies, the executive would still have had the problem of legislating and enforcing a dress code, though admittedly not one as strict as requring suits. For example, the players may have been told that they cannot wear jeans, running shoes, or T-shirts. So we are only talking a matter of degree.
I do not know what the correct solution is or would have been. Perhaps a phone call to all of the top players informing them that a 10,000+ sponsorship was available if they were willing to play in suits?
These players (mostly - if not all - GM's) may not all be wearing shirts and ties, but they are all reasonably dressed. (the sponsor may have had some say in the matter)
For what it is worth, I have been watching the World Series of Backgammon on TV recently and all the players to my recollection were dressed casually. Even when play got down to quarter-finals and semi- finals and finals. I don't recall seeing any suits and ties. This was for a purse of 130,000 euros for the winner. I have no idea if these events are sponsered or not. It basicaly looked like any poker show or, for example the 2011 Canadian open.
These players (mostly - if not all - GM's) may not all be wearing shirts and ties, but they are all reasonably dressed. (the sponsor may have had some say in the matter)
so your criteria for a dress code is:
- jeans ok
- short sleeved shirts ok
- shirts without a collar ok
- jacket and/or tie not required.
?
Just what do you mean by a dress code? That the players are not naked?
In women's beach volleyball the dress (undress?) code required is to play in very small bikinis. Dress code for corporate executives, bodyguards and mafia gunmen ? Suits and ties! Chess needs no such codes.
In women's beach volleyball the dress (undress?) code required is to play in very small bikinis. Dress code for corporate executives, bodyguards and mafia gunmen ? Suits and ties! Chess needs no such codes.
I don''t disagree with you. I'm not for any dress code other than as you say , normal social convention. I'm just trying to figure out what Hugh means by dress code.
In order to get $10,000 in sponsorship, 30 players would have to spend $30,000 on suits? Really to get the right image you would need more than one suit for the tournament, maybe one per day, and really they should be tailored designer suits which could cost a bit more than that $30,000 figure. You really don't want the players to be wearing smelly, musty old suits that don't fit and have lots of dandruff around the shoulders because they haven't been dry cleaned or even brushed off in a while.
In women's beach volleyball the dress (undress?) code required is to play in very small bikinis. Dress code for corporate executives, bodyguards and mafia gunmen ? Suits and ties! Chess needs no such codes.
I have no problem with this statement, as long as it is accepted the correlated effect that there will be a loss of sponsorship opportunities.
You might just as well, for example, ask why at Wimbledon, the players are required to wear primarily all white attire - that's the rules of the sponsor and host, and you can either abide, or you can choose not to and you won't be there (I believe Andre Agassi chose not to attend for several years for this reason early in his career). There is no option of "what does the color of my shirt have to do with my tennis. Wimbledon needs no such codes."
Tweet
Be7
15. c4 Qc7 16. g5 Re8 17. Nf2 Nf8 18. Ng4:D Ng6:( 19. h4 Bf8 20. h5 Nge7
Comment