Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

[Mikhail Egorov]

CFC main defense is newly created motion, that was passed last January. CFC Executives and some Governors bringing same reason as main defense over and over again. Unfortunately it is not the reason and in this case is completely irrelevant.

New motion was brought to increase more juniors. It was repeatedly pointed out by former CFC Youth Coordinator Michael Barron. That it allows more junior to compete at WYCC and more entrees to CYCC remains to be seen. It was only first test.

Also other factors were not pointed out by Michael Barron who was trying to proof ,
that it was only new motion that allowed more participants at CYCC. This year main organizer Mr. Jin and organizing committee of CYCC did an incredible job at making it the most successful event yet!

If same result will be the same or better in 2012 and 2013, then we can start crediting Mr. Barron for his accomplishments. Until then, we should keep discussion closed. Now lets stick to the real topic and find out the real reason why, shall we.

Last weekend Annex Chess Club held a very successful 2011 Canadian Women Championship in Toronto. Natalia Khoudgarian was crowed 2011 Canadian Women Champion. Congratulations to her!

Two other girls successfully competed in it and showed amazing results: WCM Jackie Peng and WCM Jiaxin Liu.

WCM Jackie Peng ended up sharing fourth with WCM Jiaxing Liu and U16 CYCC Champion Chang Yun.

Jiaxin Liu over performed her expectations in this tournament. She drew top girl U12 Qiyu Zhou with black pieces (who is going to WYCC to represent CANADA), U16 CYC Champion Chang Yun, convincingly winning against U8 CYCC Champion Taylor Zhang and finishing ahead of U12 CYCC Champion Melissa Giblon. She was also recently was awarded WCM title as well. :D It is an amzing performace by a 9 year old girl.

Both girls are denied by CFC to participate at WYCC in Brazil, because they participated in Pan-American games this summer. Because they turned their back on CFC and CYCC tournament and decided to represent CANADA internationally.

Maybe CFC can explain their logic to us, in which quite frankly I find it very hard to make any sense of. Unless it is not allowing them to participate for other personal reasons, that we don’t know yet.

It is trying to say it is doing for good of its Canadian Youth and send the ‘best possible’ team, but with its actions it is doing quite the opposite.

For example Russian and Chinese Chess Federations are giving their most talented core of players, best chance to represent their country. If it sees a talented individual it will make sure he/she will gets its chance to proof itself at World Stage. Sometimes they send 5-6 for each section. CFC Executives should take a note of the way other successful Federations treat their youth members, and follow an example.

All CFC Executives are going in this case is padding each other on the back and crediting each other on what a great job they did. As a proof, please refer to Bob Armstrong post:
http://chesscanada.info/forum/showthread.php?t=2051

I am quite shocked and ashamed at the way CFC is conducting this matter.

[Bob Armstrong]

Cooperative Chess Coalition ( CCC ) Congratulates CFC

Hi Mikhail:

I'd like to point out that the post you referred to by me, was in fact a post of a reform group, the Cooperative Chess Coalition ( CCC ), of which I am the coordinator. It was not a post on behalf of the CFC itself.

And CCC stands by its position that, although it is sometimes critical of the CFC, it gives credit where it is due, and the CFC has made substantial progress in the last three years. This is not a gratuitous grandstanding, but a sincere congratulations for coming back from the brink of disaster.

You are missing the point I think, by using one sole controversial issue, to judge three years of CFC activity.

Bob Armstrong, CCC Coordinator

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: Cooperative Chess Coalition ( CCC ) Congratulates CFC

And CCC stands by its position that, although it is sometimes critical of the CFC, it gives credit where it is due, and

Hi Bob,

That is depressing to hear Bob. I cannot say I agree with everything you write or say, but I do absolutely respect your opinion and advice and I believe you 'care'.

the CFC has made substantial progress in the last three years. This is not a gratuitous grandstanding, but a sincere congratulations for coming back from the brink of disaster.

That remains to be sees. CFC managed to safe to save itself from brink of disaster, and managing to keep itself afloat. Time will tell if they will make substantial progress.

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

I found this right on the front page of the CFC website:

'The Chess Federation of Canada (CFC), founded in 1872, is a registered non-profit organization in Canada whose mandate is to promote and encourage the knowledge, study and play of the game of chess in Canada. The CFC is the governing body for chess in Canada and is affiliated with the World Chess Federation (FIDE).'

I fail to see how CFC in this case following its mandate in encouraging and promoting the knowledge.

If CFC can't back with everything it is claiming on its wesbite, I would kindly encourage it to be removed from its website. It would be a reasonable thing to do.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

Because they turned their back on CFC and CYCC tournament and decided to represent CANADA internationally.

Thus why do you surprised that the CFC have a back too? :D

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

Thus why do you surprised that the CFC have a back too? :D

Good point! :D

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

Good point! :D

Now we have gone from a group hug in one thread, to everyone turning their backs on one another in another thread!

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

Now we have gone from a group hug in one thread, to everyone turning their backs on one another in another thread!

And what a mess this is all created! I wonder if CFC will clean this up now. :D

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: Cooperative Chess Coalition ( CCC ) Congratulates CFC

Hi Mikhail:

I'd like to point out that the post you referred to by me, was in fact a post of a reform group, the Cooperative Chess Coalition ( CCC ), of which I am the coordinator. It was not a post on behalf of the CFC itself.

And CCC stands by its position that, although it is sometimes critical of the CFC, it gives credit where it is due, and the CFC has made substantial progress in the last three years. This is not a gratuitous grandstanding, but a sincere congratulations for coming back from the brink of disaster.

You are missing the point I think, by using one sole controversial issue, to judge three years of CFC activity.

Bob Armstrong, CCC Coordinator

Perhaps Mikhail is indicating that this issue is a litmus test of the CFC, being a major deliverable. It's fine to paint the shop with a new coat of paint but the real test is whether key service criteria are being met. I would tend to agree with him.

[Jesse Wang]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

Mikhail,

I fail to understand exactly what you are trying to achieve by emphasizing that Dora [Jiaxin] Liu is qualified to go to the WYCC. That [whether or not Dora is a good player and arguably the best in the country] is not the issue being that is being contested by the CFC.

On the CFC board you have claimed Dora did my sister a "favor" by not participating in the CYCC and "allowing" her to win the CYCC. Here, on Chesstalk, you are undermining the achievements of WCM Jackie Peng and Qiyu Zhou, amongst others that you have mentioned in your post. I congratulate Dora on the result, she is a good player. But you've already made that clear. You don't need to make fallacious comparisons to show that Dora is a good player and furthermore, these comparisons don't mean anything. I had an extremely lucky win against FM Michael Kleinman recently, but that says nothing about the relative strength between myself and FM Kleinman. Likewise, just because Dora made draws or scored higher than player X, doesn't imply that Dora is better than player X.

I believe you owe all the players you've mentioned an apology. Repeating the same points does not help your cause at all. Furthermore, if Dora were rated 2000 FIDE, I doubt the CFC would have a problem with Dora being part of the WYCC team. (And neither would you be emphasizing her relative strength)

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

I fail to understand exactly what you are trying to achieve by emphasizing that Dora [Jiaxin] Liu is qualified to go to the WYCC.

CFC feels the same way and that is the problem. They are suppose to promote and encourage chess in Canada. I fail to see how they are trying to accomplish this in case.

On the CFC board you have claimed Dora did my sister a "favor" by not participating in the CYCC and "allowing" her to win the CYCC.

I guess you have not read the full thread. Please read my reply to Vladimir Birrarov. In my reply I did say that your sister is a strong player and a worthy representative at WYCC, but this is not we are discussing here at this time.

Here, on Chesstalk, you are undermining the achievements of WCM Jackie Peng and Qiyu Zhou, amongst others that you have mentioned in your post.

I apologize, but I fail to see how I am undermining her achievement here. They both tied for 4th place in same Championship. Qiyu Zhou had a very good result as well. :)

I congratulate Dora on the result, she is a good player.

Thank you! :D

I believe you owe all the players you've mentioned an apology.

CFC representatives own a lot of players an apology here to, including Mr. Barron. We haven’t heard it from them so far. They suppose to leave by example and show our youth on how this is suppose to be handled. Instead CFC chose not to apologize and correct their mistake. We are still waiting for their apologies as well. I hope you are not on their side. :)

Furthermore, if Dora were rated 2000 FIDE.

Are you saying that CFC is discriminating young talented low rated players. This is very shameful. This can really damage young players psychologically. If this is true, CFC should apologize to young players for this as well. If this is true, it raises a very serious issue within CFC. I really hope it is not true.

[Ben Daswani]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

CFC feels the same way and that is the problem. They are suppose to promote and encourage chess in Canada. I fail to see how they are trying to accomplish this in case.

but that's because there's something wrong with you. let me explain the situation to you:

- the cfc is aiming to promote and encourage chess IN CANADA
- the wycc and the pan-ams do NOT take place IN CANADA
- by requiring wycc participants to participate in the cycc, the cfc is promoting the cycc
- the cycc takes place IN CANADA

like how is this not obvious

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

but that's because there's something wrong with you.

This is starting to look more like a personal attack. If you do not have any proof, please refrain from making empty accusations in the future.

This can also be said about CFC.

the cfc is aiming to promote and encourage chess IN CANADA

I guess they aimed, but missed in this case.

the wycc and the pan-ams do NOT take place IN CANADA

They are also suppose to encourage young and talented juniors to reach new heights, not the other way around. I fail to see how they accomplishing it here.:)

by requiring wycc participants to participate in the cycc, the cfc is promoting the cycc

I only see you are mentioning WYCC here. Pan-American games is a very important event as well. I am pretty positive a lot of athletes will happy to represent their country at Pan-Am games, and not just in chess. By saying this, you are discriminating against Pan-American games, and this is not an empty claim, because there was personal reason from CFC to boycott it this year.

Maybe there is something wrong with CFC and they way they do things in this particular case?

[David Ottosen]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

Can someone more clearly state what's going on? Are they being denied the opportunity to attend, the spots they would be using given to someone else, being denied funding to go, or what?

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???

Can someone more clearly state what's going on? Are they being denied the opportunity to attend, the spots they would be using given to someone else, being denied funding to go, or what?

The Pan Am Youth Chess Championship was scheduled so that it conflicted with the 2011 CYCC which annoyed members of the CFC executive including the then Youth Coordinator Michael Barron. They decided not to support the Pan Ams. Some players wanted to attend the Pan Ams. They were told that to do so would bar them from participating at the WYCC since you have to attend the CYCC or have a very good excuse for missing the CYCC in order to play in the WYCC. The players and their parents apparently accepted this and said that they would attend the Pan Ams.

Fast forward to today. They now want to attend the WYCC. The CFC is saying that they agreed that they could not attend the WYCC if they skipped the CYCC and have presented arguments that allowing them to play now would be unfair to youngsters who wanted to attend the Pan Ams but didn't because they wanted to attend the CYCC/WYCC more. This is an executive decision which might have been reversed by the governors with a two thirds majority to overrule the executive but there was little apparent will for this and no motion was presented despite one being drafted and posted by Chris Mallon who himself did not support such a motion.

Barring some kind of court challenge which would be unlikely to succeed as the CFC did follow its rules in this matter, or a surprising reversal of its decision by the executive the decision will stand. The executive seem to be fairly unanimous on this and my impression was that only a few governors had much sympathy for the idea that the Pan Am participants should be allowed to play in the WYCC.