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Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???
I spent a decade organizing for the CCCA and another decade tournament directing for the ICCF. An organizer who can not be depended on to follow the rules so all the players know where they stand quickly loses control of his position and loses the respect of the players and members.
Like I said CFC is expecting their questions answered, but does not wish to answer when questions are asked towards CFC.
Is it fair that Canadian talented juniors gets panelized by CFC? Is it their fault?
I'm not asking on behalf of anyone other than myself.
Is it fair? No more fair than if I touched a piece and then realized it was a mistake, and was forced to move it. The rules were clear, I deliberately chose to touch the piece, and lost as a result. I cannot stand up and say "Why is the TD discriminating against me even though I'm clearly a better player than this person I lost to?".
Is the rule good or bad? I don't know, and don't really care. But the players involved all seem to have known the rules (despite your refusal to answer this question directly), and the CFC should enforce them. It's not discrimination of any sort.
Of course, the lengthy evidence showing that all the money the CFC invests in junior chess having no impact on adult or long term membership numbers is a completely different story. How much CFC time/money has been invested in helping Mark Bluvshtein become what he became only to see him retire from competitive chess, in the tradition of so many other talented juniors? I think you could make a serious case that the entire CYCC is a violation of the CFC mandate, simply due to the opportunity cost involved.
How much CFC time/money has been invested in helping Mark Bluvshtein become what he became...
Mind you, very, very little I am afraid. :) The CFC cannot complain about Mark or anybody else retiring. It does very little to prevent that, quite the opposite actually.
Mind you, very, very little I am afraid. :) The CFC cannot complain about Mark or anybody else retiring. It does very little to prevent that, quite the opposite actually.
What exactly do you want the CFC to do to help prevent that? Seriously, we are working on a long term strategic plan and your suggestions as a former Canadian champion and as an extremely successful chess coach would be most welcome.
Mind you, very, very little I am afraid. :) The CFC cannot complain about Mark or anybody else retiring. It does very little to prevent that, quite the opposite actually.
I'm not talking about someone at the CFC sitting down and writing a cheque to Mark Bluvshtein which obviously rarely if ever happened; I'm talking about how many resources and man hours were poured into running youth programs, or giving juniors a shot at the Olympiad team "for future benefit", only to result in a fantastic talented player ending up leaving the game (I want to make clear I am not trying to pick on Mark - he did nothing wrong in any way).
The whole point is that the model that junior supporters seem to believe ("create another Fischer, and a Fischer boom will happen again") is completely flawed. The CFC has had a few extremely talented players come along in the past 20 years who have scored exceptional results both nationally and internationally (I would count Lesiege, Charbonneau, Bluvshtein as the most prime examples), and all that has resulted is a long slow decline in membership. Focusing on developing juniors is not the road to health for the CFC.
So, pardon me if I don't have much sympathy for some juniors who knew the rules, and are now trying to have them set aside, because these kids going or not going to the WYCC will have zero impact on the growth of chess in Canada short or long term.
I'm not talking about someone at the CFC sitting down and writing a cheque to Mark Bluvshtein which obviously rarely if ever happened; I'm talking about how many resources and man hours were poured into running youth programs, or giving juniors a shot at the Olympiad team "for future benefit", only to result in a fantastic talented player ending up leaving the game (I want to make clear I am not trying to pick on Mark - he did nothing wrong in any way).
The whole point is that the model that junior supporters seem to believe ("create another Fischer, and a Fischer boom will happen again") is completely flawed. The CFC has had a few extremely talented players come along in the past 20 years who have scored exceptional results both nationally and internationally (I would count Lesiege, Charbonneau, Bluvshtein as the most prime examples), and all that has resulted is a long slow decline in membership. Focusing on developing juniors is not the road to health for the CFC.
Focusing on developing and retaining juniors is one wheel on the vehicle that will take us down the road back to health for the CFC. We also need to develop and retain adults. With juniors you are going to lose many of them for long periods when they are concentrating on school or perhaps trying to get established in the workforce. The question is whether they will find time to get pulled back in later. Many will not. Some will.
From what I have been told the sharpest decline in CFC health began when the CFC had severe organizational issues that deeply alienated many of its now former members.
Focusing on developing and retaining juniors is one wheel on the vehicle that will take us down the road back to health for the CFC. We also need to develop and retain adults.
I completely agree with you, Vlad!
Also, I checked the pre-register list is for U10 girls. If, Jiaxin (Dora) Liu would be among high rated players in WYCC U10.
Her rating is 1772. Even though it is provisional, she would be among the highest rated players in her section!
Giving talented juniors an opportunity, would be in CFC best interest.
Instead CFC is pushing personal interests first. With it’s decision CFC telling it’s members: ‘CFC has no interest in focusing on developing it’s junior, and help them reach true potential'.
CFC is taking step back with it’s latest decision, but CFC Executives obviously think otherwise.
I think there is something wrong with the picture, don’t you think???
I'm not asking on behalf of anyone other than myself.
Is it fair? No more fair than if I touched a piece and then realized it was a mistake, and was forced to move it. The rules were clear, I deliberately chose to touch the piece, and lost as a result. I cannot stand up and say "Why is the TD discriminating against me even though I'm clearly a better player than this person I lost to?".
Is the rule good or bad? I don't know, and don't really care. But the players involved all seem to have known the rules (despite your refusal to answer this question directly), and the CFC should enforce them. It's not discrimination of any sort.
Of course, the lengthy evidence showing that all the money the CFC invests in junior chess having no impact on adult or long term membership numbers is a completely different story. How much CFC time/money has been invested in helping Mark Bluvshtein become what he became only to see him retire from competitive chess, in the tradition of so many other talented juniors? I think you could make a serious case that the entire CYCC is a violation of the CFC mandate, simply due to the opportunity cost involved.
Hi David,
I believe the Chess'n Math Association made out two cheques to Mark...one when he became an IM and the other when he became a Grandmaster...the total was around $9,000...ahh but how quick we forget :)
Hi David,
I believe the Chess'n Math Association made out two cheques to Mark...one when he became an IM and the other when he became a Grandmaster...the total was around $9,000...ahh but how quick we forget :)
Nothing meant by it, Larry - to be honest, I had no idea to begin with so there was nothing to forget. So the question is: what benefit was received by doing so?
Maybe for CMA, the idea of a cheque of this nature is a nice carrot for people to pursue, and encourages more participation in CMA events either from other children attempting to chase that "bonus" or from the gesture generating publicity for CMA and the ability to sell yourself as a worthwhile program for schools. If so, great: it's a perfect positive value thing for a company to do - you invest some money, and in return, you receive more money back long term.
Was any new CFC membership ever generated as a result of Mark Bluvshtein's success? Were there any tournaments that generated more rating fees solely as a result of his participation? I doubt it - again, no offense to Mark as these statements could be just as easily be made about any junior that the CFC has had come along in the past 20 years. There's just nothing to suggest that investing money or resources in the youth program is the road towards CFC membership health.
‘CFC has no interest in focusing on developing it’s junior, and help them reach true potential'.
I don't think the CFC is saying this, but I'm saying it's what the CFC should be saying, simply because I don't believe doing this will result in long term growth of chess in Canada.
Your statement here, however, is a ridiculous over-exaggeration of the CFC position - you make it sound like they are cancelling the CYCC, cancelling all participation in the WYCC, doubling junior membership fees, and nuking the CMA headquarters. All they are doing is enforcing a rule that was well known to everyone, and which was created out of a clear desire to strengthen the CYCC. Encouraging players to participate in the CYCC instead of some foreign tournament is, to me, the exact definition of encouraging chess in Canada.
Last edited by David Ottosen; Tuesday, 18th October, 2011, 03:41 PM.
Reason: fixing quote
Quote:
‘CFC has no interest in focusing on developing it’s junior, and help them reach true potential'.
Larry
That was taken from a recent post of Mikhail Egorov ... just upthread a little.
I had just read the other posts, so it was clear - but the quote should have been attributed...
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