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Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???
The Pan Am Youth Chess Championship was scheduled so that it conflicted with the 2011 CYCC which annoyed members of the CFC executive including the then Youth Coordinator Michael Barron. They decided not to support the Pan Ams. Some players wanted to attend the Pan Ams. They were told that to do so would bar them from participating at the WYCC since you have to attend the CYCC or have a very good excuse for missing the CYCC in order to play in the WYCC. The players and their parents apparently accepted this and said that they would attend the Pan Ams.
Fast forward to today. They now want to attend the WYCC. The CFC is saying that they agreed that they could not attend the WYCC if they skipped the CYCC and have presented arguments that allowing them to play now would be unfair to youngsters who wanted to attend the Pan Ams but didn't because they wanted to attend the CYCC/WYCC more. This is an executive decision which might have been reversed by the governors with a two thirds majority to overrule the executive but there was little apparent will for this and no motion was presented despite one being drafted and posted by Chris Mallon who himself did not support such a motion.
Barring some kind of court challenge which would be unlikely to succeed as the CFC did follow its rules in this matter, or a surprising reversal of its decision by the executive the decision will stand. The executive seem to be fairly unanimous on this and my impression was that only a few governors had much sympathy for the idea that the Pan Am participants should be allowed to play in the WYCC.
some additional info:
- only 1 of the 3 players who attended the PanAms decided later that they wanted to play in WYCC
(the player and/or their parent changed their mind(s)) - the other 2 abided by the prior arrangements
- Mikhail Egorov is the coach of the player in question (as far as I know) - thus his keen interest in this issue
The Pan Am Youth Chess Championship was scheduled so that it conflicted with the 2011 CYCC which annoyed members of the CFC executive including the then Youth Coordinator Michael Barron. They decided not to support the Pan Ams. Some players wanted to attend the Pan Ams. They were told that to do so would bar them from participating at the WYCC since you have to attend the CYCC or have a very good excuse for missing the CYCC in order to play in the WYCC. The players and their parents apparently accepted this and said that they would attend the Pan Ams.
Fast forward to today. They now want to attend the WYCC. The CFC is saying that they agreed that they could not attend the WYCC if they skipped the CYCC and have presented arguments that allowing them to play now would be unfair to youngsters who wanted to attend the Pan Ams but didn't because they wanted to attend the CYCC/WYCC more. This is an executive decision which might have been reversed by the governors with a two thirds majority to overrule the executive but there was little apparent will for this and no motion was presented despite one being drafted and posted by Chris Mallon who himself did not support such a motion.
Barring some kind of court challenge which would be unlikely to succeed as the CFC did follow its rules in this matter, or a surprising reversal of its decision by the executive the decision will stand. The executive seem to be fairly unanimous on this and my impression was that only a few governors had much sympathy for the idea that the Pan Am participants should be allowed to play in the WYCC.
That's a pretty good summary of the events, Vlad.
However to say the Executive were annoyed is a bit misleading. Certainly the conflict was unfortunate, but the Junior Co-ordinator and the President made a decision that our own CYCC would take priority for all Youth over the Pan-Am's this year.
We were not going to send a team at all, until we found out there were several top players who did not want to go to the WYCC this year. We decided to make an exception for them and allowed these players to go to the Pan-Am's.
There were others on the fence who ultimately decided to stay home and go to the CYCC.
So, is this as simple as a person makes an agreement (gives his/her word) and then decides he/she does not want to keep the agreement (keep his or her word)?
So, is this as simple as a person makes an agreement (gives his/her word) and then decides he/she does not want to keep the agreement (keep his or her word)?
That's certainly one way of looking at it. In the case of the one player who has changed her mind, it could be argued that the decisions were all made at the parental level.
Whether this was part of the plan all along, we'll never know.
I'm hoping that down the road, those who oppose the decision will realize we are acting in good faith with all of the Youth players in this matter.
There are a few governors who openly opposed this decision, I hope they can use their energy to get more involved and help improve decisions down the road.
The Pan Am Youth Chess Championship was scheduled so that it conflicted with the 2011 CYCC which annoyed members of the CFC executive including the then Youth Coordinator Michael Barron. They decided not to support the Pan Ams. Some players wanted to attend the Pan Ams. They were told that to do so would bar them from participating at the WYCC since you have to attend the CYCC or have a very good excuse for missing the CYCC in order to play in the WYCC. The players and their parents apparently accepted this and said that they would attend the Pan Ams.
Fast forward to today. They now want to attend the WYCC. The CFC is saying that they agreed that they could not attend the WYCC if they skipped the CYCC and have presented arguments that allowing them to play now would be unfair to youngsters who wanted to attend the Pan Ams but didn't because they wanted to attend the CYCC/WYCC more. This is an executive decision which might have been reversed by the governors with a two thirds majority to overrule the executive but there was little apparent will for this and no motion was presented despite one being drafted and posted by Chris Mallon who himself did not support such a motion.
Barring some kind of court challenge which would be unlikely to succeed as the CFC did follow its rules in this matter, or a surprising reversal of its decision by the executive the decision will stand. The executive seem to be fairly unanimous on this and my impression was that only a few governors had much sympathy for the idea that the Pan Am participants should be allowed to play in the WYCC.
Oh, I think there might be some room for a court challenge hinging on what constitutes a'good reason' not to be able to attend the CYCC. A scheduling conflict could be considered such a good reason.
Also the reason for requiring participation in the CYCC as a condition of playing in the WYCC. Is this for the benefit of the players or of the CFC? Is it to ensure a well attended CYCC?
Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???
Zeljko is correct that the whole debate has centred around the exercise of the executive's discretion. If representing Canada internationally is not a good enough reason, one wonders where the bar is set.
Last edited by Ken Craft; Monday, 17th October, 2011, 08:40 AM.
However to say the Executive were annoyed is a bit misleading.
I may have been projecting. I would have been annoyed if I had been in their position.
Certainly the conflict was unfortunate, but the Junior Co-ordinator and the President made a decision that our own CYCC would take priority for all Youth over the Pan-Am's this year.
Fair enough.
We were not going to send a team at all, until we found out there were several top players who did not want to go to the WYCC this year. We decided to make an exception for them and allowed these players to go to the Pan-Am's.
There were others on the fence who ultimately decided to stay home and go to the CYCC.
Basically we have the situation where the CFC set certain rules and has decided to abide by them and not make an exception for this little girl. What Mikhail and a few others are arguing for is a compassionate exception. The fact that he is her coach does not change anything as far as I am concerned and does not negate his legitimate request for the CFC to make such an exception. At the same time, it does not help if you insult people who are taking a principled approach to the situation just because it conflicts with your own desires. There are no villains here, there are only conflicting principles (ie compassion for the individual vs. a desire to stick to the rules which were made clear going in).
- only 1 of the 3 players who attended the PanAms decided later that they wanted to play in WYCC
(the player and/or their parent changed their mind(s)) - the other 2 abided by the prior arrangements
- Mikhail Egorov is the coach of the player in question (as far as I know) - thus his keen interest in this issue
A child changes her mind. Who would have thunk that could happen?
Mikhail is also one of the coaches for the Canadian WYCC team as well so we might cut him some slack there.
In this case I think most of the decisions are made by the parent...
That is most likely. The child herself would certainly be a good poster child for Canadian chess. She had both Mikhail and myself in stitches at the Canadian Amateur.
Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???
Since any court challenge would definitely involve semantics, let's remember that the wording of the rule is "not able to participate at CYCC due to extraordinary circumstances" - it is not "had a good reason to not participate" ...
The player/parent knowing in advance - and agreeing - that they would not get to participate in the WYCC would be incredibly difficult to overcome in court. Considering that the deadline to register was something like three weeks ago is this not a moot point in any case?
Re: Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???
So Mikhail - is this an accurate representation? The CFC set out certain rules, these players were aware of these rules, and are now asking to have them changed or waived after the fact?
Last edited by David Ottosen; Monday, 17th October, 2011, 09:31 AM.
Reason: I'm a spelling nit
So Mikhail - is this an accurate representation? The CFC set out certian rules, these players were aware of these rules, and are now asking to have them changed or waived after the fact?
Hi David,
First lets not talk about CFC general rules in general and not switch topic here. Here we are talking about ONE specific rule. NOT all CFC rules! Original rule was perfectly fine in my opinion. Because of this new rule and conflict dates between Pan-American games and CYCC created all this unecessary mess. Pan-American games is not just any event, its a World Class event. CFC should of made an exception here and realized that.
Also, we are talking about very young players here, who are getting penalized here.
First lets not talk about CFC general rules in general and not switch topic here. Here we are talking about ONE specific rule. NOT all CFC rules! Original rule was perfectly fine in my opinion. Because of this new rule and conflict dates between Pan-American games and CYCC created all this unecessary mess. Pan-American games is not just any event, its a World Class event. CFC should of made an exception here and realized that.
Also, we are talking about very young players here, who are getting penalized here.
He wasn't talking about "CFC general rules in general" he was talking about the specific rule in question. It's a nice, simple, yes/no question.
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Please explain you logic to us Chris.
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