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Why CFC denying talented juniors to represent CANADA at World Stage???
... Of course, the lengthy evidence showing that all the money the CFC invests in junior chess having no impact on adult or long term membership numbers is a completely different story. ...
To what lengthy evidence are you referring? Where do adult chess players primarily come from if not from children who learned to play and love the game as children? It seems intuitively correct that providing a positive experience for children chess players must have some net beneficial impact down the road. I agree that the CFC's use of resources for children should not be disproportionate to their numbers versus adult numbers but, on the other hand, isn't it true that a very large percentage of the CFC's children's programs are fully funded by parents?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
The quote from David that Peter includes came several hours AFTER my post and at that point David made the statement that I wrote he hadn't intended to make (DOH!). At the time of my post, David had not made that statement, but Jean had already tried to attribute that statement to him.
So I was correct to criticize Jean for a red herring, but then David decided hours later to turn that into an actual statement. And then you, Peter, turn that against my criticism of Jean. Ahhh, what a wicked web we weave! :D
...
I think Jean made an entirely reasonable interpretation of David's post. As it turned out, it was the correct interpretation.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Proposed Motion 2011-Y - Further Amendment Needed?
Here are two further problems Michael and I are looking at now in terms of further amendments to our proposed Motion 2012-Y - seems our current wording doesn't deal with them:
1. the World Junior Can. representation prize being passed down to too weak a player – not really defensible to send them because they were so far back in the pack at the Can. Junior?
2. what to do if no one who we deem possibles, wants to attend the World Junior ( too expensive or dangerous a location, etc. )?
Suggestions how we might deal with these two in our proposed motion?
Bob
This motion is discuessed for Canadian Junior Chess Championship, that will be held in Calgary in January, 2012. So, if the first place finished can't go to World Youth it will be passed to a 2nd place finisher, and if 2nd place finished refuses it will go to 3rd place and so on....
They are discussing, what if 2nd place finished and had a great tournament, but weak (according to CFC)
At the moment 'HIGHEST FINISHER' is used instead of 'HIGHEST RATING' result for WYCC and Pan-American YCC and North American YCC?
This was proven, where 3 rated top rated juniors in Canada were declined to join WYCC team, because they attended Pan-American games.
Now Michael Barron and Bob Armstrong proposing 'HIGHEST RATING' instead of 'HIGHEST FINISHER' for Canadian Junior Championship.
So if player finished 2nd at Canadian Junior (boy/girl section) but his/her rating is low and way lower then 3rd, sorry kid thanks for your financial support you fought well, but 'No soup for you'.
CFC will be slapping it's own word to elect players to WYCC now, if NEW Michael Barron motion is passed.
Didn't Michael Barron make enough mess, as it is with his last motion aready???
I hope CFC will not decsriminate weak players, with this motion and use of 'No soup for you' philosophy.
When is this nonsesne going to end???
It is important to know, what CFC members think about this, and not what Micahel Barron thinks!
Last edited by Mikhail Egorov; Thursday, 20th October, 2011, 10:20 AM.
I think you may have misread our draft motion as amended, or I'm not clear on your point.
My post said:
" A further amendment has now been accepted by myself and seconder, Michael Barron, proposed on the confidential Governors' Discussion Board, by New Brunswick Governor Ken Craft. It replaces " in the next highest position " with " in the next highest place in the tournament ".
The point was to eliminate any possible confusion that the prize, if trickled down, might go to the next highest rated player, instead of the intended next highest finisher. "
So if the first place finisher declines to go to the World Junior, CFC asks the second place finisher if they want to go ( regardless of whether their rating is 800! ). If they decline, then CFC goes to the third place finisher ( again, with no reference to rating ).
My last proposal was that if the third place finisher declines, then the executive can appoint someone. There are some against the use of executive discretion on this. But I favour the option.
In junior chess, the ratings are somewhat in flux, since an up and coming junior may clearly be as strong as the higher-rated, but their rating has not yet caught up to their playing strength. The executive could choose such a player over someone higher rated.
This is based on the model of Olympiad Team selection, where a member is chosen by committee, not tied to the rating list. So I do prefer my option.
" So if the first place finisher declines to go to the World Junior, CFC asks the second place finisher if they want to go ( regardless of whether their rating is 800! ). If they decline, then CFC goes to the third place finisher ( again, with no reference to rating ). Bob A
Thanks for clarifying you point to us. This clarifies things completely. I agree, if 2nd place finished is 700, 800 or 900 points lower then 3rd place finished, he/she should be able to go.
Using same model for this evet, same as olympic model makes sense.
To what lengthy evidence are you referring? Where do adult chess players primarily come from if not from children who learned to play and love the game as children? It seems intuitively correct that providing a positive experience for children chess players must have some net beneficial impact down the road. I agree that the CFC's use of resources for children should not be disproportionate to their numbers versus adult numbers but, on the other hand, isn't it true that a very large percentage of the CFC's children's programs are fully funded by parents?
David has no clue about this topic. Perhaps he is less interested in the youth segment because they represent a more limited customer base for the internet poker business. That's assuming of course they survive the current massive charges of fraud the US government has slapped on them. Personally, as much as I like poker I think its a shady business, with claims like that the deal is "random" on some sites being a big lie. The bigger the money the bigger the lie it seems.
I would to see yearbooks also for 2009, 2008, 2007 so that there are historical documents that can be put in libraries.
We're talking again about having a 2010 Yearbook, now in time for Christmas.
It would not be impossible to produce a yearbook for those other years, but except for the 4 months of 2009 when CCN started, we'd only really have crosstables from the website to use, although admittedly games could be culled from Hugh's database. But I think the cost (without a dedicated group of volunteers) of doing this would be prohibitive.
We're talking again about having a 2010 Yearbook, now in time for Christmas.
It would not be impossible to produce a yearbook for those other years, but except for the 4 months of 2009 when CCN started, we'd only really have crosstables from the website to use, although admittedly games could be culled from Hugh's database. But I think the cost (without a dedicated group of volunteers) of doing this would be prohibitive.
I suggest that if you are going to do 2010, you include the 2009 issues or do one for 2009. Collectors do not like incomplete runs of magazines.
It was a simple question, which was asked few times and we have not heard an answer from CFC officials yet. :(
Be aware of wonder. Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.
Robert Fulghum
I think the CFC long term planning committee should identify a set of annual project for the CFC: the CYCC/WYCC, the Canadian Closed(s), the Canadian Open, Olympiad Team(s) when relevant, etc. and decide how to deal with all that and promote chess as an intellectual activity and support local clubs.
The CFC spends SO much time and effort arguing about tactics when there is no STRATEGIC plan or vision... surely chess players ought to understand what is wrong with that picture?
The development of a strategic plan is the primary focus of the long term planning committee. In the course of developing that strategic plan we will definitely have to deal with a vision of where we want to go as a federation and how we propose to get there.
I wasn't aware the CFC had such a thing - where can I see more information about this?
I presume that information will be forthcoming in the next governors letter. The committee was just created after a resolution to create such a committee was passed at the last online governors meeting which concluded a couple of weeks ago.
An interesting point has been made by BC Gov. Paul Leblanc, Rating Auditor, re effort in junior chess that is dubious:
" The CFC subsidizes Youth Chess by allowing tournaments that are comprised of 100% juniors to be rated for 50 cents per player and by not requiring the participants to purchase memberships of any sort.
This loses money on the rating side and forgoes income on the membership side. The return on that investment is nebulous ..."
Bob
Think of the children as seed corn. Yes we lose many of them for ten years when they try to become doctors and investment bankers and wives and husbands mothers and fathers but many of them come back eventually and become part of the chess community again at some point. Some of them come back when they have their own kids who play chess and its more fun to play than it is to just watch. Some of us get annoyed when we lose to the children who learn so quickly while we seem to dodder along making the same mistakes over and over again.
Many of those kids quit chess and never come back, taking their rating points won from us dodderers away into the ether. When you plant corn not every seed grows. If you eat the seed corn you will be full for a while but next year will come all too soon and you will be starving because you were hungry and didn't plan ahead and plant the seed corn instead of eating it. I suspect that this is part of the CFC's current problems of a declining membership. In the past the seed corn has been eaten and not enough seeds have been planted for future crops to materialize.
This analogy is something that came up over coffee at Tim Hortons with John Coleman last Tuesday after chess club and it seems appropriate to the current discussion.
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