Team-Quebec

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  • #31
    Re: Re : Team-Quebec

    Originally posted by Duncan Smith View Post
    "Conflict of interest" has been a given with respect to the CFC and OCA for almost the whole decade. I could cite numerous examples. All of them hurt organized chess in Canada. Here's an example. The OCA decided one year to give second and third place finishers at CYCC a $500 bursary to go to WYCC. Patrick McDonald was on the executive. His son got the bursary. My daughter did not. They said later you had to apply for it, but there was no communication to the players or their families that it even existed. Clear conflict of interest, we found out about it in Greece. Some time later, I was at another event and Barry was going on about this bursary and how it was an example of the OCA helping juniors. He seemed unaware how insulting it was to me to talk about this project when we got no money.
    Was it not possible to apply for the bursary after the fact? If not, that is clearly unfair.

    What I'm saying is Barry is being villified for just following standard procedure in these chess organizations. Barry was actually one of the nicer people you'll meet in these roles. He did the legwork to get the money.
    If he had delivered a great result instead of excuses as to why he couldn't hold the tournaments that were part of the initial deliverables then we probably wouldn't be talking about this at all. If the behaviour was business as usual (which I don't agree that it was) it was also several magnitudes of order larger than business as usual usually is.

    I find it questionable whether the OCA fulfills much of a useful function given that fifty percent of the CFC comes from Ontario and most of the officers of the OCA are also active in CFC leadership. The money collected now might be better left in the pockets of the membership and maybe there wouldn't be as many complaints about the high cost of CFC membership.

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    • #32
      Re: Re : Team-Quebec

      Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
      ... If he had delivered a great result instead of excuses as to why he couldn't hold the tournaments that were part of the initial deliverables then we probably wouldn't be talking about this at all. ...
      When you say "initial deliverables", I assume these were the deliverables that were the basis of Trillium's grant approval. Yes/no? Why did you use the word 'initial'? Was there a different set of deliverables subsequently approved by Trillium?

      So, if Thorvardson didn't hold these tournaments then where did the approximately $85,000 go that he allegedly paid to himself?

      Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
      ... If the behaviour was business as usual (which I don't agree that it was) it was also several magnitudes of order larger than business as usual usually is. ...
      Given this (i.e. the grant amount being substantially larger than any amount the OCA had a history of handling), don't you think that it would have made good sense, during the Trillium period, for OCA executives other than Thorvardson to have said to themselves, "hey, this is a lot of money and we need to pay attention to what's happening to it"?
      "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
      "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
      "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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      • #33
        Re: Re : Team-Quebec

        Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
        It seems to me that the OCA did have at least one annual general meeting which I attended in Kitchener as an observer where the facts were clearly established. ...
        Well if that's the case then I wonder why those facts were never communicated to the members and why, for example, Bob Armstrong went to such great lengths to piece together the available information a year or more after the AGM to which you refer. I wonder if you meant that the facts were established to *your* satisfaction, which from others' perspectives may not mean the same thing as being clearly established.

        Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
        ... I don't see how much more the OCA could be expected to undertake. By the time key records disappeared in the course of an investigation it was already past the expiration date for doing much about the whole situation. Flogging dead horse optional.
        I've never had an interest in pursuing Thorvardson. As I see it, if he had done something illegal I'm sure Trillium would have dealt with it. And of course the grant monies, or any portion of them, were never recoverable. However, what the OCA could and should have done was to examine what happened in detail, find where the mistakes were make, and then put in place the necessary procedures/by-law changes/etc. to reduce the probability of the same mistakes recurring in similar future situations. To the best of my knowledge, the OCA has done none of this.

        To give Chris Mallon some credit, he did attempt to get an investigation rolling after persistent criticism from some loudmouth (oops....I think that might have been me :o ). Unfortunately, as you mentioned, the "key records disappeared." I'm still astounded by this disappearance of key records. What a great way to leave observers with an entirely negative impression; i.e. that a coverup is afoot. In any event, the OCA could have recovered a large portion of those missing/shredded records but didn't have the will to do so. Consequently, in my opinion, the reputations of some people who served on the OCA executive during the Trillium era will remain sullied. That's unfortunate because it really wouldn't have taken a huge effort to set matters right.
        "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
        "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
        "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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        • #34
          Re: Re : Team-Quebec

          Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
          Well if that's the case then I wonder why those facts were never communicated to the members and why, for example, Bob Armstrong went to such great lengths to piece together the available information a year or more after the AGM to which you refer. I wonder if you meant that the facts were established to *your* satisfaction, which from others' perspectives may not mean the same thing as being clearly established.
          I'm not sure. I was never a governor of the OCA. I was there as an observer during the OYCC, I think, and only attended because John Coleman wanted to be there.

          I've never had an interest in pursuing Thorvardson. As I see it, if he had done something illegal I'm sure Trillium would have dealt with it. And of course the grant monies, or any portion of them, were never recoverable. However, what the OCA could and should have done was to examine what happened in detail, find where the mistakes were make, and then put in place the necessary procedures/by-law changes/etc. to reduce the probability of the same mistakes recurring in similar future situations. To the best of my knowledge, the OCA has done none of this.
          No need for an investigation. The procedures were in place. The rules were in place. Barry chose to ignore them. The penalty was a lifetime ban which is not much of a penalty. It sucks but that is the position that we are staring at. You may have had your queen before the blunder but now you have to play without it or resign. It is time to move on. Endlessly covering the same ground doesn't make the outcome any different.

          To give Chris Mallon some credit, he did attempt to get an investigation rolling after persistent criticism from some loudmouth (oops....I think that might have been me :o ). Unfortunately, as you mentioned, the "key records disappeared."
          Key records were shredded if my understanding is correct by a person charged with investigating all of the details of the situation.

          I'm still astounded by this disappearance of key records. What a great way to leave observers with an entirely negative impression; i.e. that a coverup is afoot.
          Never assume malfeasance when simple incompetence is a sufficient explanation. Occam's razor and all that.

          In any event, the OCA could have recovered a large portion of those missing/shredded records but didn't have the will to do so. Consequently, in my opinion, the reputations of some people who served on the OCA executive during the Trillium era will remain sullied. That's unfortunate because it really wouldn't have taken a huge effort to set matters right.
          The records were largely irrelevant at that point. The facts of the case had been established. I don't think that the funds from Trillium flowed through the OCA account though I could be wrong on that.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Re : Team-Quebec

            Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
            Well if that's the case then I wonder why those facts were never communicated to the members and why, for example, Bob Armstrong went to such great lengths to piece together the available information a year or more after the AGM to which you refer. I wonder if you meant that the facts were established to *your* satisfaction, which from others' perspectives may not mean the same thing as being clearly established.
            I had the situation explained to me at that OCA meeting. They allowed the members of the peanut gallery to ask questions and I did. Bob Armstrong was there if my memory isn't playing tricks on me. I am pretty sure that the details of that meeting were posted online.

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