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[QUOTE=Denton Cockburn;48028]...
9) Why is it that membership is expected to subsidize the Olympiad squad? It's sad that the CFC can't find an organization(s) that will sponsor a bunch of smart people to go represent Canada (they could milk it for the advertising). Curling gets more sponsorship than we do, and curling sucks. QUOTE]
You've got to be kidding!? Curling is however, very well organized and popular. That is compared to chess.
When I first started with the CFC, in 1992, I heard a lot of talk about a gentleman named Finta. I never met him, and have no opinion of my own on this subject, but most of the comments I heard were negative and suggested that he was difficult to deal with. I was told that the CFC had made approaches to the FQE in the hopes of improving the relationship, but that with Finta this was out of the question.
Maybe you should have listened less to gents like Fleming, Burgess, and Bunning.
A typical CFC reconciliation offer was to send an ultimatum written by a 2nd year Law student (giving Legal advice) and Mr. Finta, who was/is an attorney, reminding the student that continuing to practice law without a license could prevent the student from ever obtaining said license.
In all the years I was an administrator of the FQE, I cannot recall one CFC offer which could under the most charitable circumstances be called in good faith. Always the CFC playing hardball right off the bat. We generally did not spend more than 30 minutes discussing the quasi-annual offer.
A glaring weakness of the then CFC leadership was they did not understand business at all. But when I think how weak the CFC is these days, maybe it's just inevitable most sane people do not want to lead a bunch of petty governors for more than one term, if even that.
Maybe you should have listened less to gents like Fleming, Burgess, and Bunning.
A typical CFC reconciliation offer was to send an ultimatum written by a 2nd year Law student (giving Legal advice) and Mr. Finta, who was/is an attorney, reminding the student that continuing to practice law without a license could prevent the student from ever obtaining said license.
In all the years I was an administrator of the FQE, I cannot recall one CFC offer which could under the most charitable circumstances be called in good faith. Always the CFC playing hardball right off the bat. We generally did not spend more than 30 minutes discussing the quasi-annual offer.
A glaring weakness of the then CFC leadership was they did not understand business at all. But when I think how weak the CFC is these days, maybe it's just inevitable most sane people do not want to lead a bunch of petty governors for more than one term, if even that.
Just out of curiosity, would you characterize the 2008 offer in the same way?
Maybe you should have listened less to gents like Fleming, Burgess, and Bunning.
A typical CFC reconciliation offer was to send an ultimatum written by a 2nd year Law student (giving Legal advice) and Mr. Finta, who was/is an attorney, reminding the student that continuing to practice law without a license could prevent the student from ever obtaining said license.
In all the years I was an administrator of the FQE, I cannot recall one CFC offer which could under the most charitable circumstances be called in good faith. Always the CFC playing hardball right off the bat. We generally did not spend more than 30 minutes discussing the quasi-annual offer.
A glaring weakness of the then CFC leadership was they did not understand business at all. But when I think how weak the CFC is these days, maybe it's just inevitable most sane people do not want to lead a bunch of petty governors for more than one term, if even that.
Could any of these offers be made public, so people can see what efforts were being made.
They shouldn't be confidential unless that was pre-agreed.
Could any of these offers be made public, so people can see what efforts were being made.
They shouldn't be confidential unless that was pre-agreed.
Although I wasn't there back then, I managed to collect some informations that I can share.
1979 : The FQE offered the CFC to pay 27% of all the fees regarding the international activities (olympiads, tournaments, etc.). This was refused by the CFC, which later desaffiliated the FQE.
1996 : The FQE offered to meet the CFC. There was effectively a meeting during the Outaouais Open. The FQE had several ideas, which included a unique rating system. They had hired a mathematician to calculate the rating difference between the CFC and the FQE rating systems. However, the CFC refused to adjust the FQE ratings and the discussion could not go further.
~ 2006 : David Lavin, the CFC president, offered to reaffiliate the FQE with some conditions. He wanted the FQE to move the CFC locals in Quebec and thus take advantage of the FQE's subsidies. The FQE was interested in his offer and accepted to go further. However, it was somehow refused by the CFC governors (?).
~ 2008 : The FQE had a meeting on how it could cooperate with the CFC. They had a few ideas and tried to negociate with the CFC. However, there was no desire from them to have any negociation at all.
~ 2008: The FQE organized the Canadian Open and the CFC assembly, hoping to open the negociations. Nothing came out from it though.
2010-2011 : The FQE gave 2000$ for the olympiads and 1500$ for the Canadian Closed, as a goodwill gesture.
2012 : The FQE offered to sponsor the 2012 Canadian Closed Championship.
Now, the FQE is still open to negociation.
Last edited by Felix Dumont; Tuesday, 6th March, 2012, 12:06 PM.
Although I wasn't there back then, I managed to collect some informations that I can share.
1979 : The FQE offered the CFC to pay 27% of all the fees regarding the international activities (olympiads, tournaments, etc.). This was refused by the CFC, which later desaffiliated the FQE.
1996 : The FQE offered to meet the CFC. There was effectively a meeting during the Outaouais Open. The FQE had several ideas, which included a unique rating system. They had hired a mathematician to calculate the rating difference between the CFC and the FQE rating systems. However, the CFC refused to adjust the FQE ratings and the discussion could not go further.
~ 2006 : David Lavin, the CFC president, offered to reaffiliate the FQE with some conditions. He wanted the FQE to move the CFC locals in Quebec and thus take advantage of the FQE's subsidies. The FQE was interested in his offer and accepted to go further. However, it was somehow refused by the CFC governors (?).
~ 2008 : The FQE had a meeting on how it could cooperate with the CFC. They had a few ideas and tried to negociate with the CFC. However, there was no desire from them to have any negociation at all.
~ 2008: The FQE organized the Canadian Open and the CFC assembly, hoping to open the negociations. Nothing came out from it though.
2010-2011 : The FQE gave 2000$ for the olympiads and 1500$ for the Canadian Closed, as a goodwill gesture.
2012 : The FQE offered to sponsor the 2012 Canadian Closed Championship.
Now, the FQE is still open to negociation.
This makes it appear that one side is trying to solve the problem. I wondef if the CFC has any rebuttal.
This makes it appear that one side is trying to solve the problem. I wondef if the CFC has any rebuttal.
Of course, this is the facts as related by people living in Quebec :D Some CFC members might have more details on what happened on their side.
However, it is clear that the FQE always wanted to have better relations with the CFC ; it has good reasons for it (including FIDE rating).
On the other side, the only thing CFC has to win with a cooperation with the FQE is money (and better conditions for players in Quebec). And well, sometimes, they have other priorities.
~ 2006 : David Lavin, the CFC president, ...However, it was somehow refused by the CFC governors (?).
Years and/or a President is wrong. D.L. became President in 2008/09. I can not remember that as Governors we would vote on anything related to CFC&FQE deals since 2008.
~ 2008 : The FQE had a meeting on how it could cooperate with the CFC. They had a few ideas and tried to negociate with the CFC. However, there was no desire from them to have any negociation at all.
Probably it was ~2009 when E.van Dusen became a President, as he had plan to reunite CF&FQE, and reported about the initial talks. Unfortunately he became quite passive in chess politics, and disappeared completely later. (He had health issues. Is he OK now? )
Years and/or a President is wrong. D.L. became President in 2008/09. I can not remember that as Governors we would vote on anything related to CFC&FQE deals since 2008.
Probably it was ~2009 when E.van Dusen became a President, as he had plan to reunite CF&FQE, and reported about the initial talks. Unfortunately he became quite passive in chess politics, and disappeared completely later. (He had health issues. Is he OK now? )
It is David Lavin, so the date might more be be 2008. He came on Montreal by himself and had a talk with the FQE. He had good ideas apparently. However, when he came back, his ideas were not approved by the CFC. I can't tell who exactly decided this.
The second negociation I was referring to was when Mallon was president (sorry again, we would have to search for the exact dates). Some negociations also took place with Van Dusen, but I don't have much details about it.
Would the CFC provide free equipment as the FQE does? Would the CFC also make free advertizing for major tournaments? Would it also help sending letters, emails, etc. to all players? Would it even help organizing and providing affordable locals when necessary?
There's nothing CFC can offer to Quebec people. No French magazine (no French service at all), no help of any kind, no equipment, nothing. Why would they bypass the FQE, which offers a lot more, but really a lot more, for the same membership fees?
The thread is not about how could we bypass one of the federations, the thread is about how they can work together.
The FQE and the CFC both exist, are of similar size (in terms of membership and earnings), and are not about to disappear. They need to work out something. The new FQE executive is made up from new people, which I'm sure are open to discussion with CFC.
Certainly, the issue is not only the failure of CFC to provide decent French-language service to players in Québec, but also the success of FQE in running a well-funded organization that provides more service to Québecois players than players in any CFC-run province receive.
But I have heard it said by organizers in Ontario, too, that they have always had more success getting funding from the provincial government than from the federal.
Until it is possible to make chess a sport under Sport Canada, funding chess will probably never be a federal priority. But as long as chess is a recreational activity, with social, educational, and local economic value, it is well-suited to be a funding priority within provincial and municipal levels of government responsibility.
If that is the case, then maybe, instead of figuring out how to get FQE to re-join CFC, we should be figuring out how to create robust, well-funded provincial organizations in all provinces that are as good as FQE, and how to reduce the role of CFC to being a small umbrella group for all the provincial organizations.
instead of figuring out how to get FQE to re-join CFC, we should be figuring out how to create robust, well-funded provincial organizations in all provinces that are as good as FQE
Yes, I completely agree with you here. CFC should look how successful organization run in other countries. One of them is Russian Chess Federation, that runs as 'unstoppable oiled machine'. CFC should try to re-structure itself, even though it might take years (who said things will come easy). Although,I do not think they will be able to accomplish this very soon!
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