CCC Discusses Chess - Posts of Interest - Failure to Play Last Round.

[Bob Armstrong]

Posted on the Cooperative Chess Coalition ( CCC ) FB chess discussion group, " CCC - Chess Posts of Interest " ( slightly edited ):

CCC Discusses Chess - Posts of Interest - Failure to Play Last Round.

International/National.

Player A in a 5 round weekend swiss, plays all 5 games, and finishes in first with 4pts.. Player B plays for 4 rounds, wins every game, but had a work commitment, and before the tournament had asked the TD for a 5th round zero pt. bye. The tournament rule had been that only 2 byes were allowed within the first three rounds ( like the recent Canadian Niagara Falls Open ). The TD treated the request for the bye as a " withdrawal ", and noted " U " ( = withdrawal ) on the chart for the 5th round. Player B's final score was 4 pts., the same as Player A. The TD advised that it was his rule that to win a prize, one had to play the final round, and so Player B did not get to split first with Player A. There had been nothing in the advertising about having to play the final round. Did the TD make a correct ruling or not? What do you think and why? If the tournament had been FIDE-rated, do FIDE rules deal with this? Do any countries have national rules on this ( eg. Canada's CFC Handbook )?

Bob, CCC Member

[Peter McKillop]

Re: CCC Discusses Chess - Posts of Interest - Failure to Play Last Round.

... The TD advised that it was his rule that to win a prize, one had to play the final round, and so Player B did not get to split first with Player A. There had been nothing in the advertising about having to play the final round. Did the TD make a correct ruling or not? ...

TD's ruling was incorrect and B should have been allowed to split first prize with A. If TD wants his last-round rule to be in effect then he needs to advertise it in advance of the tournament. Seems to be just common sense, doesn't it? Am I missing something obvious?

[Jean Hébert]

Re: CCC Discusses Chess - Posts of Interest - Failure to Play Last Round.

TD's ruling was incorrect and B should have been allowed to split first prize with A.

I agree. That 4/4 would be considered worthless compared to 4/5 is simply ridiculous.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Failure to Play Last Round - Is Restriction a Good One?

... If TD wants his last-round rule to be in effect then he needs to advertise it in advance of the tournament. ....

Hi Peter:

If the TD had advertised the rule before the tournament, then he would have been right in his ruling, correct?

Do you think the TD's restriction is a good one? Should it be the standard for most tournaments? If not why not?

Bob , CCC Coordinator

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Failure to Play Last Round - Is Restriction a Good One?

Hi Peter:

If the TD had advertised the rule before the tournament, then he would have been right in his ruling, correct?

Do you think the TD's restriction is a good one? Should it be the standard for most tournaments? If not why not?

Bob , CCC Coordinator

The TD did advertise the rule - no byes after the 3rd round. Sure it was worded differently, but that's what it worked out to be. Byes of any type in the last round mess up pairings a lot more than byes in the early rounds.

My main concern is that the TD should have been up front with the player that this is what was going to happen. I'm guessing they were not since we're talking about it.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Failure to Play Last Round - Is Restriction a Good One?

Did this happen or are you posing a hypothetical?

For a player like me, who has told opponents begging for a draw in lost positions to play the game or get out, having a player drop out of an event in the last round leaving me with the prize is like a wet dream.

There are things omitted from your original post. Such as if the player asked for the last round bye or simply didn't show up. If the TD told the player he would be withdrawn for not showing up.

[Felix Dumont]

Re : CCC Discusses Chess - Posts of Interest - Failure to Play Last Round.

The player should definitely have won a prize. If the arbiter has an own rule regarding the last round, he should have advertized it. Otherwise, such a rule would not be valid. I don't know what exactly the CFC rules says about that, but the FQE rules (which greatly look alike the French rules) allow last round byes (0 point), as long as they are requested before the start of the tournament.

[John Upper]

Re: CCC Discusses Chess - Posts of Interest - Failure to Play Last Round.

The TD treated the request for the bye as a " withdrawal ", and noted " U " ( = withdrawal ) on the chart for the 5th round.

Why would the TD count it as a withdrawl rather than as a zero point bye??

AFAIK, you can request a bye for any round, but you just can't expect a 1/2-point for a bye in the "money rounds".

FWIW, I've been told that European tournaments don't give 1/2 points for byes: if you want the round off you get zero points.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Failure to Play Last Round - Is Restriction a Good One?

Hi Gary:

There has been a restriction by an organizer/TD in an actual tournament, that you must play the last round to win a prize ( I can't remember if it was advertised prior to the tournament or not, in the actual case ). And I can't remember what tournament, and am not sure of the organizer ( have an idea, but not sure, and don't want to drag someone in who shouldn't be here ).

In my scenario # 2 the facts are:

1. Pre- Tournament Advertising:
a) 2 byes only; only in the first three rounds ( Implies it is sufficient to advise the TD before he does the next round pairings );
b) to win a prize, you must play in the last round.

2. Pre-tournament notice by Player B:
a) has a work commitment and can't play round 5;
b) asks for a zero point Rd. 5 " bye ".

Facts:
1. TD marks Rd. 5 as " U " for Player B = withdrawal;
2. Player A and Player B have 4 point result.
3. TD awards prize to Player A; Player B does not win any prize.

Question:

Is this a reasonable restriction for an Organizer to impose ( done prior to the tournament )?

Bob, CCC Coordinator

[Peter McKillop]

Re: Failure to Play Last Round - Is Restriction a Good One?

Hi Gary:

There has been a restriction by an organizer/TD in an actual tournament, that you must play the last round to win a prize ( I can't remember if it was advertised prior to the tournament or not, in the actual case ). And I can't remember what tournament, and am not sure of the organizer ( have an idea, but not sure, and don't want to drag someone in who shouldn't be here ).

In my scenario # 2 the facts are:

1. Pre- Tournament Advertising:
a) 2 byes only; only in the first three rounds ( Implies it is sufficient to advise the TD before he does the next round pairings );
b) to win a prize, you must play in the last round.

2. Pre-tournament notice by Player B:
a) has a work commitment and can't play round 5;
b) asks for a zero point Rd. 5 " bye ".

Facts:
1. TD marks Rd. 5 as " U " for Player B = withdrawal;
2. Player A and Player B have 4 point result.
3. TD awards prize to Player A; Player B does not win any prize.

Question:

Is this a reasonable restriction for an Organizer to impose ( done prior to the tournament )?

Bob, CCC Coordinator

It is not a reasonable restriction, in my opinion. Are we trying, as a chess community, to promote our game or are we trying to set up arbitrary rules that create obstacles for people who want to participate?

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Failure to Play Last Round - Is Restriction a Good One?

Hi Bob,

Your problem can't reasonably be solved without knowing the facts of what transpired between the player and the TD. Was the request, if there was one, made before the start of the event or did the player simply phone it in after he found out who he'd be playing? What did the TD tell the player? In this case we don't know if the TD was in the habit of enforcing such a rule. It would appear no appeal was made because it isn't mentioned.

You have to strip away the emotion and look at the facts, which are in short supply here. What rule did the TD break? Which year approximately did this happen because your memory of the event is very fuzzy.

Gary

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Failure to Play Last Round - Is Restriction a Good One?

Hi Gary:

To my knowledge, the player gave advance notice of needing a Rd. 5 bye in sufficient time ( not sure if it was prior to Rd. 1, but was early on, not when he saw his Rd. 5 pairing ).

As far as I know, the TD told the player that he would be treated as a Rd. 5 " withdrawal " = " U " = 0 pts.. This was his general rule ( if I'm remembering the right Organizer/TD ) and he did enforce it all the time.

In the actual tournament I'm trying to remember, I don't think the TD had advertised about " don't finish - don't win " before the tournament, and don't think he talked to the player about it when the player asked for the Rd. 5 " bye ".

In my view, the TD in the case I'm trying to remember, imposed an unadvertised rule ( no finish = no prize ), which he had no right to do, and deprived a deserving player of a prize.

Bob

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Failure to Play Last Round - Is Restriction a Good One?

I suppose your interpretion would depend on your own definition of "withdrawal" and the rights you think a player has after he does something which results in him being considered to have withdrawn from the event.

Asking early simply means he asked before the situation happened and elected to contine to play under those conditions.

What did the TD do which was wrong and could have been the basis for an appeal? If we're going to hang the TD out to dry, we have to establish an infraction.

[Felix Dumont]

Re : Re: Failure to Play Last Round - Is Restriction a Good One?

To my knowledge, the player gave advance notice of needing a Rd. 5 bye in sufficient time ( not sure if it was prior to Rd. 1, but was early on, not when he saw his Rd. 5 pairing ).

It makes a big difference...
If the 0 point bye was requested after the start of round 1, then the arbiter had the right to refuse it and withdraw the player. If the request was made before the first round, then the arbiter is most likely wrong in not giving the prize.

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: CCC Discusses Chess - Posts of Interest - Failure to Play Last Round.

Why would the TD count it as a withdrawl rather than as a zero point bye??

AFAIK, you can request a bye for any round, but you just can't expect a 1/2-point for a bye in the "money rounds".

FWIW, I've been told that European tournaments don't give 1/2 points for byes: if you want the round off you get zero points.

Agree with John ...