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Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
I generally agree with Tom's perception of a steady erosion in kid (and yes adult too) behaviour over time. Interestingly, I could not help but notice this last weekend, albeit subjectively, at the Superfest event north of Montreal, that behaviour seemed generally much better. It was my first Quebec event in very many years, and very small sample! ;)
Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
John,
Let me just say generally that my problem was with centering out kids. Id much rather just talk about disruptive players young or old.
As far as penalties go the fide rules as listed on chess.ca suggest starting with a warning and then working to more severe penalties. I agree with this way of doing things because as a td Im also trying to resolve things making myself as less a part of the game as I can be untill it becomes necessary.
I think if players in kichener went to the td after each infraction and the td started with warnings and worked his way up to harsher penalties you might have seen a decrease in disruptive behavior. But what Im guessing happened is there was a combination of lack of complaints and bored new players not used to chess ediquette.
I am probably going to regret saying this :-) but if someone in the room is interupting your game dont be afraid to go to the td.
I want to note that in borderline cases I myself observe I often wait for a complaint so that I dont interrupt the game of the very player I am trying to protect. (Id like the opinions of other tds and players on this)
Let me just say generally that my problem was with centering out kids. Id much rather just talk about disruptive players young or old.
As far as penalties go the fide rules as listed on chess.ca suggest starting with a warning and then working to more severe penalties. I agree with this way of doing things because as a td Im also trying to resolve things making myself as less a part of the game as I can be untill it becomes necessary.
I think if players in kichener went to the td after each infraction and the td started with warnings and worked his way up to harsher penalties you might have seen a decrease in disruptive behavior. But what Im guessing happened is there was a combination of lack of complaints and bored new players not used to chess ediquette.
I am probably going to regret saying this :-) but if someone in the room is interupting your game dont be afraid to go to the td.
I want to note that in borderline cases I myself observe I often wait for a complaint so that I dont interrupt the game of the very player I am trying to protect. (Id like the opinions of other tds and players on this)
Garvin, I cannot speak for John, but my kid incident at Kitchener was very challenging. There were TEN draw offers, some of them on my time, some while I had less than a minute to go, some with the hand waving in my face, SOME ALL THREE. He was also trying to blitz me, even though he had over 30 minutes left. So, I engaged the TD a couple of times, but after that, I know every time I get up, my opponent will just study the board for a few extra seconds. All of this can be corroborated by the players sitting next to us, but I leave it up to them if they want to get involved. Anyway, if I had to choose, I believe this young player was less malicious vs. ignorant of chess etiquette.
But the point is this : I am more likely to repeatedly engage the TD if I have very safe expectations that sanctions will escalate quickly. Otherwise, dunno if it is always worth my effort. Also, getting up is disruptive to my thinking, and to our neighbour players! :(
Don't get get me wrong, I agree there are imperfect adult opponents as well, but a very young player can sometimes take this whole thing to another level. On the other hand, I played some other young players in the same event, and their comportment was superb!
Regarding your final point, and I am an arbiter, I believe that too many of us arbiters wait for the official complaint, even though we know in our hearts that the disruption is already affecting other players. We can see the jerking of the heads toward sound, the clasping of the palms around the ears, the frustrations with having chains of thought broken over and over again. Even spectators mumbling affect so MANY live players! :(
Just my 2c worth. At my tournaments this coming season, I am on planning on having a shorter forfeit time (so that everyone is there and ready for pre-round announcements), and then do what Hal does, a quick tight slightly amusing "here's how it's going to go"! ;)
Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
It's a matter of common sense. If someone disrupts the game through unusual tactics..I believe there are rules there about disrupting an opponent. Should not be the end of the world if its enforced. I learned very early..(When I used to play) to treat my opponent with all the respect I expect. It's really quite simple.If a kid gets disqualified or forfeited a game..its not the end of the world..It's a lesson. If you insist on being a jerk..then....
Don't be chicken..and pull the trigger when they overstep their bounds...though..I must mention that a little common sense should be applied as well. We all have heard the "Rule Nazis" Not hats..three buttons..etc. I'm a little confused why this should even be an issue. Anyone with a modicum of common sense should be able to handle these minor inconveniences.
Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
How about players behaviour OFF the board? A recent event had one player (an adult - age in the late 40's or early 50's) continually drunk (amongst other no-no's) between/after rounds - the result being that the organizer will not welcome him to future events he holds, nor will the place in which he was staying.
Re : Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
I think you exagerate many of the Junior player act correctly during a tournament chess game.
A funny thing happen couple of years ago ,il was playing a 10 or 11 years old after time pressure the mother of the kid give him a ''happy pack'' from Burger King ( a burger and a little fries) and he eat it in front of me ...:)
That is why I suggested a time penalty.
It tells the offender that if you do something wrong you'll lose time off your clock,do it again and we'll take more time.
The offender will either stop or run out of time.
A time penalty of the type that you are proposing would have zero effect on many kids.
A time penalty of the type that you are proposing would have zero effect on many kids.
As an arbiter, I find some of the rule subsets much easier to apply, and there would be no grounds for appeal, etc. For example, check out 7.4.b regarding making illegal moves.
The escalation is quite uneven, but quite deterring :
1st time = 2 minutes
2nd time = 2 minutes
3rd time = game lost
I would be surprised if any player really feared 2 minutes, but knowing the 3rd time will be an automatic loss, and you are on the way to it, FEAR! Kind of like driving demerits!
Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
Does this count as what we are discussing? I just came back from spectating a tournament in Barcelona where Spraggett ate two sandwiches while watching a game at another board after finishing his game. Of course he´s probably not considered a junior anymore but maybe this is the kind of thing John means?
Does this count as what we are discussing? I just came back from spectating a tournament in Barcelona where Spraggett ate two sandwiches while watching a game at another board after finishing his game. Of course he´s probably not considered a junior anymore but maybe this is the kind of thing John means?
Did you ask him to clarify his indignation over (your) posts in the Gligoric thread? He seemed quite bent about the direction the thread took...
Did you ask him to clarify his indignation over (your) posts in the Gligoric thread? He seemed quite bent about the direction the thread took...
I´m not aware of his indignation. I don´t read his blog; never have. When I have to worry about what Spraggett thinks about Yugoslavian history I´ll turn in my ethnic identity. I already don´t concern myself very much with what he thinks about Canadian chess. I have other fish to fry.
I would rather have liked to clarify what kind of sandwiches he had. They looked pretty good.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Wednesday, 22nd August, 2012, 06:23 AM.
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