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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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It seems that your undestanding of french is far weaker than Kerry's ;). Otherwise you would like me find it more stupid than nasty. Many of those games listed did not even have impact on prize distribution, or made me lose significant amounts of money.
What does money have to do with it? You could have been paid under the table by your opponent(s) for all we know.
It was a prearranged draw (with actual moves obviously agreed beforehand)
This is the important part of what you claim. The other parts are to simply support this claim, and gain an advantage in public opinion. No real proof.
FIDE laws of chess says:
"5.2.c. The game is drawn upon agreement between the two players during the game. This immediately ends the game. (See Article 9.1)"
Moves were played and a draw agreed. Your task is to try to prove the draw was prearranged and the actual moves agreed beforehand. It's hard to imagine two players, one a GM, can't play 8 moves without deciding before the start of the game the actual moves.
To a viewer, one player needed only a draw to secure 1st place and offered a draw to a weaker player. The weaker player accepted. In the final round it's sometimes known as "looking after business".
At the canadian closed around round 8 there was the elite players meeting. The guy speaking named Nicolas asked the audience if they tought it would be better to have places 1 and 2 sent to the pan-américan championships, or places 2-3. The audience mostly answered 2 and 3, but Sambuev had already something like 8 in 8 so it was an ambarrasment. In a feeble voice Nicolas said he would talk and ask Bator about it. Why did'nt they ask about that before the first round?? I would'nt be surprised if that game were the return of a favour by a friend of a friend. Just a theory, no offence meant.
Your task is to try to prove the draw was prearranged and the actual moves agreed beforehand.
In law there is a thing called "circumstancial evidence". This is everything but direct proof such as a registered conversation or a written confession, which unfortunately do not come by often. "Circumstancial evidence" is mostly what we have in chess to protect its integrity. If circumstancial evidence is strong enough (beyond reasonable doubt...), actions should be taken, otherwise our basic rules of ethics become pointless and unapplicable.
In law there is a thing called "circumstancial evidence". This is everything but direct proof such as a registered conversation or a written confession, which unfortunately do not come by often. "Circumstancial evidence" is mostly what we have in chess to protect its integrity. If circumstancial evidence is strong enough (beyond reasonable doubt...), actions should be taken, otherwise our basic rules of ethics become pointless and unapplicable.
Let's look at the "circumstantial evidence". You have claimed the "actual moves were obviously agreed beforehand".
It stretches my imagination a GM would have to agree a mere 8 moves to get to a draw. There is enough doubt to dismiss the claim.
FIDE allows rules to disallow short draws if an organizer wishes. Such was not the case in this event.
Exactly which FIDE rule do you claim was broken and what remedy do you seek? I'm unclear on this point.
Let's look at the "circumstantial evidence". You have claimed the "actual moves were obviously agreed beforehand".
It stretches my imagination a GM would have to agree a mere 8 moves to get to a draw. There is enough doubt to dismiss the claim.
FIDE allows rules to disallow short draws if an organizer wishes. Such was not the case in this event.
Exactly which FIDE rule do you claim was broken and what remedy do you seek? I'm unclear on this point.
Even for you Garry, I won't start all over again. Please go over Parlons-Echecs with a web dictionary or something and try to get it if you are that interested. It is not about short, 8, 30 or 105 move draws as such. I thought that this was clear for everybody by now. It is about pre-arranged results with or without pre-arranged moves. Are you claiming that these are legal according to the laws of chess ?
Even for you Garry, I won't start all over again. Please go over Parlons-Echecs with a web dictionary or something and try to get it if you are that interested. It is not about short, 8, 30 or 105 move draws as such. I thought that this was clear for everybody by now. It is about pre-arranged results with or without pre-arranged moves. Are you claiming that these are legal according to the laws of chess ?
Jean, I don't think it matters what you suspect. Only what you can prove to an arbiter or appeal committee. An arbiter probably should want some solid proof to accept a claim such as you are making. The problem is accepting such claims without solid proof opens the door for such claims in many more events. Also, you have to decide if you wish to claim the result was prearranged or the result and the moves. If you claim both you have to prove both.
Which rule do you claim was broken? That part is important to your claim and I don't recall seeing you cite a specific rule.
Jean, I don't think it matters what you suspect. Only what you can prove to an arbiter or appeal committee. An arbiter probably should want some solid proof to accept a claim such as you are making. The problem is accepting such claims without solid proof opens the door for such claims in many more events. Also, you have to decide if you wish to claim the result was prearranged or the result and the moves. If you claim both you have to prove both.
Which rule do you claim was broken? That part is important to your claim and I don't recall seeing you cite a specific rule.
First Gary, answer these question for a much needed proof that you have a little good faith if not some common sense: do you believe that pre-arranged results are within the laws of chess or within the laws of any sport/competition ?
Do you believe that everything is allowed if not explicitly detailed and forbidden in the rules ?
First Gary, answer these question for a much needed proof that you have a little good faith if not some common sense: do you believe that pre-arranged results are within the laws of chess or within the laws of any sport/competition ?
Do you believe that everything is allowed if not explicitly detailed and forbidden in the rules ?
It doesn't matter what I think. In any case, I'm not going to play a game where the main question is based on the premise the result was prearranged.
Did you make the complaint to the arbiter at the event?
It doesn't matter what I think. In any case, I'm not going to play a game where the main question is based on the premise the result was prearranged.
Did you make the complaint to the arbiter at the event?
Maybe it was like when you meet a girl at a bar? You both look into each others eyes and instantly realize you both want a short draw with the following moves coming naturally. :p:p:p:o
A little while ago I was in a dispute with a high rated player about whether pre-arranged draws were illegal. He didn't hide the fact that the draw was pre-arranged, and even tried to get me to give him the phone number of his opponent to make the draw arrangement easier, now that really got me going!
He then challenged me to find a reason, why would a pre-arranged draw (rather than a loss) be illegal, unfortunately, the best thing on FIDE rules I could find is the mention that you cannot bring the game of chess into disrepute. In his opinion; however, there was no disrepute in pre-arranging a draw.
I think that FIDE should clearly state that pre-arranged results are illegal.
Handbook :: C. General Rules and Recommendations for Tournaments
06. FIDE Tournament Rules
8. Play
(f) Where it is clear games have been pre-arranged, the CA shall impose suitable penalties.
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