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I have posted this promotion of Shogi on Chess.com. I didn't do it here directly, because I was unable to make my images display correctly. It's targeted on chess players who would like to give it an immediate try without having to go through all the rules. If you have a suggestion on what can make it easier or clearer, please tell me. Mainly, if you didn't even try it, what prevented you from doing so. I'm searching for a better way to promote the game.
Last edited by Portella; Tuesday, 16th October, 2012, 08:09 PM.
Paul Bonham should pursue this. Shogi has a lot of popularity and almost no draws. Much more likely to get Shogi interest than in a new invention.
Little secret for you. Bonham basically ripped off the idea from Shogi of adding back captured pieces. Then presented it as an original, bright idea.
I will say this for Shogi: I used to play a fellow in a couple of bars in Hamilton way back. Never had so many women come up to us inquiring what we were doing. You don't get that with a chess set.
If you do want to play it you can learn from this guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkz0LVBg0W4 He does quite a nice job. Not many people at all who know how to play in Canada. It is rather hard to find an opponent. Online is probably the only way you are really going to be able to play it. Literature in English is very limited so you might have to try to learn Japanese. By limited I almost literally mean one or two books at best. You are better off learning to play GO as there is much more Go in Canada than Shogi. If I was kind I would say Shogi in Canada is on lifesupport.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Wednesday, 17th October, 2012, 02:02 PM.
Shogi deserves to be more popular. I believe you've hit the nail on the head in identifying the playing pieces as a problem with this. Even though it's apparently a shallow reason, chess pieces are more visually attractive, and identifiable, to Western eyes.
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
Shogi deserves to be more popular. I believe you've hit the nail on the head in identifying the playing pieces as a problem with this. Even though it's apparently a shallow reason, chess pieces are more visually attractive, and identifiable, to Western eyes.
Came across this excellent review by a chess player as to the state of Shogi literature in English. Not sure if Larry stocks this book but maybe he should. Better Moves for Better Shogi
That would be a beginner's Shogi set that you've linked to, Alan.
I once played a few online Shogi games. I can't recall if the opportunity to colour the opposing pieces differently (only possible with use of a computer, really) was taken. Otherwise, both sides use the same pieces (though one king has an extra identifying mark) and the way to tell them apart is the direction the narrower end of them is pointing towards (same for the beginner's set).
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
Came across this excellent review by a chess player as to the state of Shogi literature in English. Not sure if Larry stocks this book but maybe he should. Better Moves for Better Shogi ]
Hi Zeljko,
We do not at this time but I will look into picking it up. We sell about 40 Shogi sets a year so there is probably interest in the book. Especially as we already buy from this supplier. Thanks!
Serge Renault is a friend for whom I created a login in Chess.com and whose account I used to post the thread.
Zeljko, Shogi has quite a few books around in english and the number tends to grow. Even one of the most famous Shogi players (Habu) has recently written a book targeted on english speaking players. You don't need to learn japanese at all. Hidetchi's videos are enough to get one going and there is enough material to let you busy for a long time; one can find a lot of good players online who will be willing to teach more advanced aspects of the game; and there is even a site (Shogimaze) with a database of the most used moves for openings and that is growing fast.
Kevin, that's what I tried to do with those exercises. I found out that after doing some mate exercises, identifying pieces became very easy. It's the same kind of shape association we use when learning chess, but I think that the more convoluted aspect of shogi pieces make it seem more difficult. The fact is that, if one chooses a part of the whole and focus on it, it becomes a very simple pattern association process. I can bet that anyone who goes through the exercises I posted, will, at least, be able to identify the pieces and their moves. It will become second nature after a few games.
By the comments posted here I noticed that, probably, most of you didn't try to solve the exercises. Since I'm searching for a way to improve this approach, I would like to know what prevented you from trying it: its length? the length of the introductory text? the fact that I presented a link and didn't post the images directly? instructions aren't very clear? image resolution makes it difficult?
Ok, I know this kind of question is really boring, but we're trying to find a good way to stimulate chess players to, at least, try Shogi. Those I know which tried it got immediately hooked.
Serge Renault is a friend for whom I created a login in Chess.com and whose account I used to post the thread.
Zeljko, Shogi has quite a few books around in english and the number tends to grow. Even one of the most famous Shogi players (Habu) has recently written a book targeted on english speaking players. You don't need to learn japanese at all. Hidetchi's videos are enough to get one going and there is enough material to let you busy for a long time; one can find a lot of good players online who will be willing to teach more advanced aspects of the game; and there is even a site (Shogimaze) with a database of the most used moves for openings and that is growing fast.
Kevin, that's what I tried to do with those exercises. I found out that after doing some mate exercises, identifying pieces became very easy. It's the same kind of shape association we use when learning chess, but I think that the more convoluted aspect of shogi pieces make it seem more difficult. The fact is that, if one chooses a part of the whole and focus on it, it becomes a very simple pattern association process. I can bet that anyone who goes through the exercises I posted, will, at least, be able to identify the pieces and their moves. It will become second nature after a few games.
By the comments posted here I noticed that, probably, most of you didn't try to solve the exercises. Since I'm searching for a way to improve this approach, I would like to know what prevented you from trying it: its length? the length of the introductory text? the fact that I presented a link and didn't post the images directly? instructions aren't very clear? image resolution makes it difficult?
Ok, I know this kind of question is really boring, but we're trying to find a good way to stimulate chess players to, at least, try Shogi. Those I know which tried it got immediately hooked.
Standard western chess skills (being a national master) served me very well when I took up Shogi (Japanese Chess), though I only play it occasionally (with a small circle of friends in Ottawa, in our informal Oriental games club that we arrange months or years apart, in cafes).
When I played my first game of Shogi, against another chess master who had lived in Japan for 5 years, I was given some sort of odds by my chess master friend. I had a Gold general parked in front of his king during the opening stage of the game, and I moved a knight adjacent to it, delivering mate. I'll never forget his chagrin when I asked, "Gee Bob, is this checkmate"? :D
Zeljko is right about the game being a magnet for young women (or others) asking questions whenever our group plays, though we get such questions or requests to play from time to time when we mix in other games (even standard western chess). Not so much when we play Double chess, though that may be because we look busier, and are more noisy.
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
By the comments posted here I noticed that, probably, most of you didn't try to solve the exercises. Since I'm searching for a way to improve this approach, I would like to know what prevented you from trying it: its length? the length of the introductory text? the fact that I presented a link and didn't post the images directly? instructions aren't very clear? image resolution makes it difficult?
Ok, I know this kind of question is really boring, but we're trying to find a good way to stimulate chess players to, at least, try Shogi. Those I know which tried it got immediately hooked.
I'd like to try the exercises and give you some feedback but right now I am behind a university firewall in my residence room in France. It will not permit me to access your website as it classifies it as a games site.
For what it is worth the time I have spent on Shogi has made me a better chess player. In that it has made me look at chess through new eyes. It forced me to have a heightened sense of strategy because I had to adapt to a system that I didn't know at all.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 18th October, 2012, 01:28 AM.
Little secret for you. Bonham basically ripped off the idea from Shogi of adding back captured pieces. Then presented it as an original, bright idea.
Bullcrap. What a sore loser you are. My original idea as a whole is unlike Shogi in too many ways to mention. I never said or implied that the idea of resurrecting a piece was my original idea.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
While I think Shogi and Chinese Chess are interesting, there are two major hurdles to overcome in order to get any level of popularity amongst Chess players:
1. Most Chess players have enough on their plate with regular Chess. Who has time to study another game enough to become reasonably good at it? Many players don't even want to entertain S-Chess as an option, let alone a whole new game.
2. The number of people available to play these other games is limited. I used to own a Shogi board. The number of games I played? Zero. The number of people I know who play Chess is small, and the number who play these other types is even smaller. Building momentum to a reasonable level where the are a reasonable number of players could take years. On that note, I don't consider online play to be a feasible option on its own. Chess for me is a social activity, and without over-the-board play, it would lack an important aspect.
My question to those promoting Shogi is: What are the benefits to taking it on? Is it a better game? Also, why don't we put our effort into promoting and growing Chess which is already widely available, familiar, and part of our culture (just look at how many times Chess is featured in film, advertising, etc).
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