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The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
23 people have posted in this thread at this point.
If a motion was brought to the CFC Governors' 2013 Winter ( Jan. 1/13 ) On-line Meeting that:
" CFC dismantle the infrastructure for the separate, parallel women's chess system in Canada "
it is my understanding from the posts here that the following 6 who have posted in this thread would support such motion:
Aman Hambleton
Jean Hebert
Tom O'Donnell
Ben Daswani ( added )
David Ottosen ( added )
Bob Armstrong
Let me know if I have misinterpreted any of your comments, and this is not the case.
There are a number of others in the other 17 whom I think may support such a motion, but I am hesitant to say they have taken a definite stand. If some of you also would support such a motion, then please let me know by posting such, so I can add your name to my list.
Finally, if you have viewed this thread with some interest, but not yet posted, and would support such a motion, would you also let me know by posting such. I will then add you to the list.
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Fwiw, here's an old thread started by Ms. Yuan, concerning her founding a girl's chess club, which might have relevant material to the arguments within the present thread started by Bob A.:
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
As I mentioned on the Governor's private message forum some days ago, I found that when I went to Cuba last year there were plenty of female players (in the Capablanca Memorial), though I didn't notice any adult ones that weren't also young. As I conjectured, the shortage of competitive female chessplayers may be more acute in North America.
There's more posts I made on other matters in that private forum that some Governors that visit chesstalk more often may wish to peruse.
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
23 people have posted in this thread at this point.
If a motion was brought to the CFC Governors' 2013 Winter ( Jan. 1/13 ) On-line Meeting that:
" CFC dismantle the infrastructure for the separate, parallel women's chess system in Canada "
it is my understanding from the posts here that the following 6 who have posted in this thread would support such motion:
Aman Hambleton
Jean Hebert
Tom O'Donnell
Ben Daswani ( added )
David Ottosen ( added )
Bob Armstrong
Bob A
Only about 25% of the posters at the time of this post clearly supported the motion under discussion to eliminate the Canadian separate, parallel women's chess system. This minority indicates a " thumbs down " on the proposed motion by the majority. As far as I personally am concerned, the issue will now be mothballed by me, perhaps to be brought out to be reviewed some years hence again.We'll see if the stats have changed at that time.
Thank you for the participation in this interesting debate.
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
We do need a separate system for women, at least for the girls. The reason has nothing to do with chess, it is a social reason. it has been noticed in large sports gathering that male and female athlete do not socialize in the same manner. That has nothing to do with physical abilities, female makes friend with other females differently then males make friend with male. It has been found that the principal reason for which girls compete is to meet other people. A girl competitor who has finished last will be very happy if she has increased her network but a male competitor with a similar ranking will be very sad if not angry. The likelihood that a girl will engage in a male dominated competition is very slim because she will perceive no opportunity to socialize with other girls.
In order to attract girls to chess, we need more girls only competition.
At adult age, the situation is unclear, but at least in Quebec, there is a rise in the number of girls only gyms and of girls only cycling clubs. I know the president of a women only cycling club and although they do send competitors to the Canadian championship, competing is only the goal number 4 after increasing the visibility of women cycling (1), networking (2) and finding riding partners (3).
The female competitors attitude toward competition being different, we still need a separate women system.
Yes, but those are physical activities. If you read my post from before where I was belittling Zeljko for being perpetually stupid, I also made the point that in non-physical activities that rely on intelligence rather than brute strength, men and women should be able to compete on equal grounds.
True, but a gym is not a competitive sport. Women like to have their own area for other reasons, not because they can't compete.
I also made the point that in non-physical activities that rely on intelligence rather than brute strength, men and women should be able to compete on equal grounds.
I used to eat lunch with a woman who had been a jack hammer operator for a few years. There were about 10 of us at that table.
I used to eat lunch with a woman who had been a jack hammer operator for a few years. There were about 10 of us at that table.
Was she able to rest her enormous belly on the hammer while it was running?
THAT, my friend, is the true test... (and a good stabilizing trick I am told).
Was she able to rest her enormous belly on the hammer while it was running?
THAT, my friend, is the true test... (and a good stabilizing trick I am told).
She didn't have a big belly. Only large arms. I've never operated a jack hammer so don't know about the trick.
Only about 25% of the posters at the time of this post clearly supported the motion under discussion to eliminate the Canadian separate, parallel women's chess system. This minority indicates a " thumbs down " on the proposed motion by the majority. As far as I personally am concerned, the issue will now be mothballed by me, perhaps to be brought out to be reviewed some years hence again.We'll see if the stats have changed at that time.
Thank you for the participation in this interesting debate.
Bob A
I have a different take on this thread. It reminds me of all the crap we went through when our junior decided to play in the CYCC open section in 2002. It also reminds me of how easily so many regular adult male members ( and occasionally organizers ) often believe they know what is best for others, despite having limited knowledge of what they are talking about.
In all seriousness, if this is what organized chess is to be in Canada, I would strongly recommend that all families reconsider any formal chess activity for their junior girls. School events, most CMA type events, and some special one offs like Ontario girls championship are all reasonably female friendly. Beyond that its a minefield, especially if you're good you are expected to lead when you might not want to.
Think how so many topics involving female players end up talking about expected performance ( or lack thereof ), the "right" to participate in events, afterthoughts on female funding, occasional male ego boosts at the expense of girls, or other similar ideas. This is not a positive environment for female juniors, because they are set up to fail and forced to fight for anything they get in chess. Other activities provide a much smoother path.
Just for the record, I don't want to see female only events being banned from chess. I just want parents, coaches, tournament organizers and whoever else is involved to encourage female participation in open tournaments. Right now, I'm assuming that most parents are happy if their daughter wins an age group sectional like the ones they have at CYCC but it's important to realize that most boys of similar ages on average, have to aim for a 300-400 performance increase in order to accomplish the same feat. If more girls are taught at a younger age that in order to really be successful in chess, they have to aim higher too, I see no reason why a lot of girls suddenly quit chess once they reach puberty and/or when they realize being an 1800 just isn't going to cut it.
Precisely my feelings, Bindi. And by way of concrete example, I would strongly recommend to Harmony Zhu's parents (whom I see most Mondays at the ACC) that she not only forego the CYCC U8 Girls next year, but also the CYCC U8 Open. She's too strong for that as well. She should clearly play up in age if she wants to best hone her chess skills. If she continues to tack on rating points, she might even consider playing up 2 age categories and playing in the CYCC U12 Open.
Along with her best friend Lilly Harrison the pair used the occasion to launch their own social cause — a foundation supporting chess-playing girls — and reach out to possible sponsors willing to support more girls endeavouring to compete against the world’s best.
Those interested in helping Tapp and the Chess Foundation for the Education and Wellness for Girls can find out more at ashleychessgirl.com.
imho, there are more (percentage) women in organizing chess than playing.
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