The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

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  • The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

    The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

    Below is an article from the Canadian Toronto Chess News (TCN) of November 1, 2012, of which I am the editor. I am also the author of the article published. What do you think on this issue? Let us know by posting your comments. Here is the article:

    “Editorial Analysis

    Chess has a very open and egalitarian system – men vs women; boys vs girls; youth vs older; rich vs poor; nationality vs nationality; higher-rated vs lower-rated. In a word, the system is “inclusive” – all can participate.
    But what do we see existing right beside it? – a parallel, exclusive all-women’s separate system. And this is both at the female adult and girls’ levels.
    Do women still need this enclave? If it was once critical, is there still in 2012 a need for it? Has it served its purpose, so that it can be consigned to the junk heap of history, having now accomplished what it was supposed to?
    If it has not yet achieved its goal, will it ever?
    Below is an article written by me, not as editor, but as a CFC Life Member, musing about the situation. After you read it, send in your answers to my questions in the preceding paragraph, and give reasons. TCN is trying to keep an open mind on the topic ( one might say there is a slight conflict of interest here ). Any general comments will also be most welcome. It will be interesting to see if there has been any shift in modern times away from support for the “separate women’s parallel system”.

    Article - The Women’s Chess System
    ( by Bob Armstrong, CFC Life Member )

    In sports where physical prowess is a main factor in success, such as tennis, a separate system for women, generally physically inferior, makes sense – they cannot compete on an equal footing with men at the very top levels, and often lower as well.
    But is this true of chess?
    It is true that tournament chess is very physically taxing, and consumes a large amount of energy. But in this type of physical regime, it seems to me men and women are equal – both are up to the task at the same level.
    So what then is the reason for the entirely separate parallel system, when the open system is available and inclusive?
    Two main reasons are often given ( and other arguments may also exist ):

    1. Chess Culture – Because chess historically is so male-dominated, the chess culture itself is very macho. This is not women-friendly, and as a result it is exceptionally difficult to get women to spend their time and energy in what is almost a hostile environment. A female chess culture is needed to initially draw women into chess, into a comfortable and friendly atmosphere, where they can take up the difficult challenge that is competitive chess. A parallel women’s chess system provides this. Eventually, those women who are successful, will get the desire to do better and to improve, and will voluntarily take on the open chess culture, in their quest to become the best they can become – and this will involve much more play against stronger male opponents.
    2. Unequal Development – Women, historically, have not been encouraged to play chess. Consequently the pool of women players has been much smaller than that of male players, and so in the same age range, the chance of more stronger players in the male pool is expected. Consequently, resources have tended to be spent on the elite players in the open system, mostly male. Girls/women traditionally have not had chess coaches, not been on competitive chess teams, not had outside financial support, and have had limited opportunity to play many strong opponents in their own peer group. So women’s level of chess achievement has generally been lower than men’s ( Judit Polgar of Hungary is one of the rare exceptions, coming from an exceptional chess family ). To encourage girls/women to enjoy chess and to strive for higher achievement, there must be female role models. So there must be a series of awards, and “ champions “ proportionate to women’s achievement levels. This produces women’s “ champions ” to be emulated, women’s titles to strive for. Those women who wish to progress further will migrate to the open system.

    Do these two reasons satisfy you as to why we still need TODAY a separate, parallel women’s system? Are there other arguments, stronger or less strong, that also justify the women’s system? When I started tournament chess 45 years ago, this was an issue. The vast majority supported the system. In 2008, in the then Scarborough Chess Club newsletter, and also posted on the Chess ‘n Math Association chess discussion board, Chesstalk, I did a lengthy article on the arguments on both sides. I got then a more divided response, though the majority still supported the system. I admittedly had some trouble determining the views of female chess players themselves. After almost one-half a century, I think it is time to take the pulse of the issue again. Are we now at the point where this system is no longer necessary, and women can take their place in the open system? Has it served its purpose, and put itself out of a job?
    Is it in fact now a “ hindrance ” to the chess development of girls/women? A recent ChessBase article noted: “ Why is there just one woman in the top 100 players on the FIDE rating list, and why are just 2.2 percent of the top 1000 players female? ” This is the result of the separate system after over ½ century of experimentation? One has to conclude it is not working, no? Women are not being helped by this system. In fact, one might wonder whether the separate women’s system may be the CAUSE of these dismal stats ?

    TCN Invitation

    Let TCN know what you think on this issue. Let us know if you are a women, girl or parent of a girl chess player – we’d especially like to hear your opinions. We will publish our readers’ submissions, to keep the discussion going, and to see if the majority perspective on this issue has changed over the last half century.”

    Bob A ( TCN Editor )

  • #2
    Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

    Now that chess is being taught in
    public schools more girls are
    playing in some of the tournaments.
    Some of them are doing quite well.
    Chess is always changing.Increments,
    cell phones,computers,etc.Seniors
    have a section.If girls want a section,
    then they should have one.:D

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

      Not sure what your point is Bob. There are basically no female only tournaments in Canada apart from a few cycc sections, the Canadian women's closed and maybe one or two provincial equivalents.

      So, you want to stir the pot about abolishing something that basically doesn't exist? Not to mention as organizers operate entirely of their own free choices, unless you want to make organizing women's events strictly illegal, there is no point in making empty philosophical statements about the choices of those organizers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

        The percentage of elite women is low because the percentage of women is low.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

          I always view arguments of this sort made by men with a jaundiced eye.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

            Originally posted by Roger Patterson View Post
            Not sure what your point is Bob. There are basically no female only tournaments in Canada apart from a few cycc sections, the Canadian women's closed and maybe one or two provincial equivalents.

            So, you want to stir the pot about abolishing something that basically doesn't exist? Not to mention as organizers operate entirely of their own free choices, unless you want to make organizing women's events strictly illegal, there is no point in making empty philosophical statements about the choices of those organizers.
            It would be hilarious to have a Top Male Prize to rival the Top Female Prize now wouldn't it :D

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

              On that basis why not do away with junior only tournaments. If your goal is to have everyone in one heterogeneous group.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

                Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
                On that basis why not do away with junior only tournaments. If your goal is to have everyone in one heterogeneous group.
                Well... juniors, adults and seniors are their own age category while men and women are gender categories. Bob is just arguing for putting men and women on equal footing since they should be intellectually equal with all this women's right movements of the last century. You don't see many juniors competing with adults in the job market do you? If there are more women in universities and gradually more women in higher up positions, why is it right for women to claim a subsidy on certain events on the basis of historical disadvantage while wanting equal rights in other areas?

                They shouldn't be able to cherry pick what they want equal rights in and what they want an advantage in.

                On a personal level, it always pisses me off when you have women who are prominently featured in chess news based on their good looks and an ability to move the pieces while men 300-400 points higher than them are never mentioned at all. I'm positive if the women's system was abolished, women chess players will be forced to compete with men and actually become stronger.

                This in turn will hopefully allow us to stop sending expert level players to the Olympiad.
                Shameless self-promotion on display here
                http://www.youtube.com/user/Barkyducky?feature=mhee

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

                  Originally posted by Ken Craft View Post
                  I always view arguments of this sort made by men with a jaundiced eye.
                  So....you're suggesting that only men with some sort of liver dysfunction make these arguments?
                  "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
                  "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
                  "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

                    Originally posted by Bindi Cheng View Post
                    I'm positive if the women's system was abolished, women chess players will be forced to compete with men and actually become stronger.

                    This in turn will hopefully allow us to stop sending expert level players to the Olympiad.
                    The women's performance ratings at the 2012 Olympiad were 1948, 2007, 1971, 1886, and 1795. I hope we will soon START "sending expert level players to the Olympiad".

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

                      Originally posted by Bindi Cheng View Post
                      Well... juniors, adults and seniors are their own age category while men and women are gender categories. Bob is just arguing for putting men and women on equal footing since they should be intellectually equal with all this women's right movements of the last century. You don't see many juniors competing with adults in the job market do you? If there are more women in universities and gradually more women in higher up positions, why is it right for women to claim a subsidy on certain events on the basis of historical disadvantage while wanting equal rights in other areas?

                      They shouldn't be able to cherry pick what they want equal rights in and what they want an advantage in.

                      On a personal level, it always pisses me off when you have women who are prominently featured in chess news based on their good looks and an ability to move the pieces while men 300-400 points higher than them are never mentioned at all. I'm positive if the women's system was abolished, women chess players will be forced to compete with men and actually become stronger.

                      This in turn will hopefully allow us to stop sending expert level players to the Olympiad.
                      I was referring to this preamble: Chess has a very open and egalitarian system – men vs women; boys vs girls; youth vs older; rich vs poor; nationality vs nationality; higher-rated vs lower-rated. In a word, the system is “inclusive” – all can participate.

                      The youth vs older part leads me to interpret it as meaning no junior events. Once you are opposed to and want to do away with all gender segregated events then I don't see how you justify not doing away with age segregation as well. Why is age deserving of special events while gender is not?

                      Juniors do compete in the job market. If we take junior to mean the WYCC age criteria then plenty of them compete for part time jobs, babysitting jobs, and jobs after graduating from high school or after dropping out of high school. The government has special programs to try to help youth employment, which they categorize as anyone under 25.

                      As for women's rights all during the last century I don't quite agree with your time frame. In 1967 for example a woman was not allowed to have her own bank account; if she married she was expected to quit her job etc. Canada was a much different place just a bit longer than in your life time.

                      Oh and a nurse in Quebec was arrested for merely handing out brochures informing women of birth control options.
                      Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Wednesday, 7th November, 2012, 01:00 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

                        Thanks for catching my misplaced modifier, Peter. I truly do not know about the state of Bob's liver. ;)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

                          Since we are all for equality and we want to protect the weak, how about CFC events for people of the two founding nations only? I mean in Canada most English/French people are very weak at chess, especially compared to people of Asian and Eastern European origin. For proof: take a look at the names on the list of WYCC entries from Canada this year. Not a Jones or Dubois in the lot.
                          "Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

                            Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
                            Since we are all for equality and we want to protect the weak, how about CFC events for people of the two founding nations only? I mean in Canada most English/French people are very weak at chess, especially compared to people of Asian and Eastern European origin. For proof: take a look at the names on the list of WYCC entries from Canada this year. Not a Jones or Dubois in the lot.
                            Sure but how do we make sure a Dubois is not a Dubois by marriage only and really a Duboisinsky in Dubois disguise? :D:D

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?

                              Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
                              how about CFC events for people of the two founding nations only?
                              Go and organize. What does it stop you?
                              Similar as Jean Hebert played and won a francophone championship.

                              As for equally: we still have separate washrooms - men and women, though family too :p

                              Comment

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