Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Girls Choosing Tournaments

Let the kid have some fun.

Hi Vlad:

I should have prefaced my remark by saying that I believe the junior should likely make the decision, even at 6 years old. But, Harmony's parents will know best her ability to deal with this somewhat complex decision. They also will know if it is a decision beyond her - that will be too stressful to decide.

But I think the options and consequences are quite simple and clear, when all the politics of the issue are set aside. And if Harmony's parents feel that she can make a decision in her own best interest, then I do agree that " achieving the girls' title " is one of the factors, but " achieving the Open title " is also one.

You are right that she should determine which option she sees as being the most fun for her in chess. But there are times, where the striving trumps the fun, and we do things to reach a goal, even if choosing an alternate might be more fun. The satisfaction of achieving the difficult goal outweighs the satisfaction from pursuing the " fun " option. And the harder road can also be " fun ", depending on the approach brought to it.

I guess Harmony's parents will have to decide whether it is too early for her to face such questions.

Bob A

[Alan Baljeu]

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

The WYCC is one tournament. If Harmony wants to continue developing chess, it's the other 10 tournaments per year that will make the difference. Most of those will not be segregated by gender, and feature players stronger than Harmony, except scholastic tournaments.

[Jack Maguire]

Re : Re: Girls Choosing Tournaments

Let the kid have some fun.

I've had the great pleasure of witnessing just how much fun Harmony does have at the chessboard: win, lose, or draw. Marcus Wilker alluded to same in an earlier post.

I would suggest that the quickest way to extirpate this natural joy that Harmony has for the game would be to force her to play in events that are absolutely no challenge to her. Do you really think someone can have any fun playing only opponents 500+ points beneath them?

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Re : Re: Girls Choosing Tournaments

Do you really think someone can have any fun playing only opponents 500+ points beneath them?

How many tournaments would she play like that? You are talking about the Canadian Chess scene which is full of weak tournaments, and there are no choices. At first she must move to Open sections at Annex CC and weekenders. CYCC is only one tournament per year, and it a qualification for the WYCC. It is her (or her parents) decision what she wants to accomplish: GM, WYCC champion, have fun.

As Karpov (?) told a success is 90% work and 10% talent. She has a talent, now time for a hard work.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Re : Re: Girls Choosing Tournaments

I've had the great pleasure of witnessing just how much fun Harmony does have at the chessboard: win, lose, or draw. Marcus Wilker alluded to same in an earlier post.

I would suggest that the quickest way to extirpate this natural joy that Harmony has for the game would be to force her to play in events that are absolutely no challenge to her. Do you really think someone can have any fun playing only opponents 500+ points beneath them?

No one is forcing her to do anything. She has the freedom to do whatever she and her parents want. Don't weigh her down with all of your inflated hopes and expectations because she has been able to accomplish what she has already accomplished with a joyful heart. She should stay that way.

The World Open beckons. Even the Detroit Motor City Open beckons. Becoming the girls world champion would open some doors for her that finishing fifth or even second in the open would not. The parents from Windsor that I have discussed Harmony with say she is the real deal but at some point progress slows or else we would be sending her off to the men's world championship in four or five years. The way some of the guys are gushing on Chesstalk you would think she was a Dutch tulip circa February 1637. Meteoric rises tend to slow down or result in crashes.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Re : Re: Girls Choosing Tournaments

Meteoric rises tend to slow down or result in crashes.

I thought she finished 3 full points behind the winner. That's a lot.

Is the game from the final round available? Maybe someone could post it.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Re : Re: Girls Choosing Tournaments

I thought she finished 3 full points behind the winner. That's a lot.

Is the game from the final round available? Maybe someone could post it.

I haven't seen the final results but that is probably right. To demand someone play in a tougher section is a bit silly when they haven't won the section that everyone is saying is too easy for her.

[John Coleman]

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

As you say, Gary, Harmony finished with 7½/11, tied for 8th, 3 points behind the winner. Her performance rating was 1438. Remarkable, in that she is two years younger than the other top girls in that group.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

The investigation team can try to figure out what the opening was and all other moves :)


from the official site

[Charles Huang]

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

We met Harmony for the first time in April last year in BC chess challenge. She finished with 5.0/5 (and in the same kindergarten group 2nd place Neil Doknjas 3.5/5; my son Patrick 2.5/5). We were astonished with her performance -- she was obviously more talented in my opinion.

We met her again in BC chess challenge again this year. Out of surprise she did not perform as well as before. She finished with 3.0/5; Neil 4.0/5, Patrick 3.0/5 and the new rising star Rowan James 3.0/5 as well. We though she might lose interest in chess.

The in July she did not attend CYCC. We thought she might have stopped playing... Neil had 1st in U8 open with 6.5/7; notable Arhant Washimkar 2nd 6.0/7; Patrick and Rowan 4.0/7.

But later we knew Harmony moved to Toronto roughly in spring/summer, competed and won the 1st place in Canadian Music Competition under 7 group. She therefore was not able to play in CYCC due to conflicted schedule. You should be able to google her performance in the CMC on Youtube -- it was AMAZING. Patrick himself has learned Piano for two and half years as well and he is far far behind from her.

Then we saw her achievement in WYCC. She must have picked up her chess training right after CMC (given her performance in CMC I can understand the time/effort involved thus no time anything else but only Piano practice). We are happy to see her coming back to chess -- and Patrick is setting his goal to keep up with Harmony too.

Can Harmony play in U8 open CYCC next year? she certainly can. But I bet Neil/Rowan/Patrick are lined up ready for that and growing their skill as well. I can see the positive momentum coming. And yes those boys have a lot to work on and long way to go. Rowan is approaching 1500, Patick 1300 and Neil is making much progress by attending WYCC.

And they did have FUN in chess -- not just competing. Actually there's no pressure from their Parents (sorry cannot talk for Doknjas family :)). Those kids just love playing chess themselves. I once asked Patrick if he wanted to choose one only from Chess or Piano and he refused. He is actually doing Chess/Piano/Swimming/Skating/Tennis/Karate at the same time -- and it's HIS choice. The pressure is mine to support him.

I actually don't know Harmony's parents and never talk to them; this is only for a father's perspective. I do hope they can enjoy it with commitment and friendship. Life is long and we never know what it can lead to.

[Jack Maguire]

Re : Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Parents who force their child to play above their level will find the youngster seeking more rewarding activity.

I couldn't agree with you more, Vlad. By the same token, however, a child should not be forced to play below their level. I strongly suspect the latter may well even be the greater 'evil'.

To wax poetic on you, Vlad, and with full apologies to Robert Browning and his classic 1855 poem, 'Andrea del Sarto', "Harmony's reach should exceed her grasp".

Imho, Harmony playing the 2013 CYCC U8 Girls would be a complete waste of her time (as would the U10 Girls for that matter). She'd still be the #1 seed in the U8 Open so I'm not convinced that this event pays sufficient homage to Browning either. The U10 Open looks like a nice fit since she'd be a top seed but not #1. She'd undoubtably score exceptionally well (so as not to get discouraged) and still have a reasonable shot (probably the 2nd or 3rd favourite) of winning the event.

To my way of thinking, no greater disservice can be done to a child then placing them in an unchallenging environment. While one should never overreach, neither should they ever underreach. And fortunately for Harmony, who has two excellent parents, I'm sure the three will continue to toe the proper path.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

One more view in the position:

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Seems they had some kind of a dispute.

[Aman Hambleton]

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Harmony, for a newly-turned seven year old, had a great result in her U8 Girls category. The final round was against a tough opponent who was already clinched 1st place by a 1.5 point margin!

The arbiter seems to agree...

[John Coleman]

Re: Re : Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Imho, Harmony playing the 2013 CYCC U8 Girls would be a complete waste of her time (as would the U10 Girls for that matter). ... The U10 Open looks like a nice fit since she'd be a top seed but not #1. She'd undoubtably score exceptionally well (so as not to get discouraged) and still have a reasonable shot (probably the 2nd or 3rd favourite) of winning the event.

So you think for a seven year old to win the world under-8 championship would be "a complete waste of her time". Really?

At her current FIDE rating (1438), Harmony would be ranked 30th on the under-8 open (based on the 2012 list).

She would be ranked 112 of the 115 rated players in the under-10 open (based on the 2012 list). She may be good, but she ain't THAT good.