Toronto Blue Jays!!

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

Good to see the Jays win 8 games in a row. I must admit, you've got to have in-the-small-minority and childlike faith to anticipate such a major, miraculous turnaround in such short order! ;)

I remain a cheerful pessimist, as Emmanual Lasker was characterized. :) The Jays are still not in a playoff spot, and have a number of tough teams to pass in order to get one. I still hope forlornly, deep down, that they do, Duncan's carping aside.

[Bindi Cheng]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

Holy shit, 7 in a row, Jays have been outscoring their opposition 42-12 (something like that) in the past 7 games, just total domination. I think 5 of those were in the come from behind 7-5 win against Chicago that Wang pitched last week and so they have really man-handled the Rangers and now Rockies. With Buehrle going tomorrow and pretty much being our best pitcher at this time, I have complete faith that Jays will continue rolling and maybe even be over .500 by the all-star break. Like someone on fangraphs said, the Jays season was over 2 weeks ago and now it's alive. That's something.

[Duncan Smith]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

If I'm counting right, the Jays are 9 1/2 games out of the second AL wildcard spot after tonight. Their season is thus pretty much shot in my books.

Any team 9.5 games out of the playoffs on May 10th must certainly be dead for the season. Right ? Right ?
Given we are more then a month later, you are going to have to start writing off other teams that the Jays are equal to or ahead of in the standings. So teams on Pacey's death watch may soon include Tampa Bay, Washington, maybe San Francisco ( last years winner ).

I don't know if the Jays will make it or not, but they were never totally out of it. Now that Texas and New York have come back to earth
( as expected ), the chances have improved a lot. My benchmark was .500 by the all star break. That seems likely now.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

I thought today's game was one of those things. It's hard to win a sweep in a series but the Jays won the series and had a nice winning streak going into the game. They gave up too many home runs today but Texas is a decent team. Also after last nights long game I guess they wanted Johnson to go as deep into the game today as he could. Our bullpen was likely tired so it's too bad he couldn't go 6 or 7 innings.

Our starters seem to be coming around now. Dickey and Buehrle seem to be getting things going. I notice they brought up LaRoche to play third. He's been in the majors before.

I'm also looking forward to Reyes returning. Hopefully this injury won't impair his stolen base potential. It might not. Ellesbury (Boston) stole 5 in one game and hurt himself on the 5th. He was out close to a week and since he came back he's stolen 3 bases in 3 games.

This could be big week for the Jays if they can put together a winning streak.

Were you an Montreal Expos fan in the early years like Hugh and myself?

[Duncan Smith]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

I see the Jays are re-tooling for the second half of the season. All the new players are starting to get used to each other. Only 9 1/2 games out of first and on a 4 game winning streak as I write this.

Reyes should soon be back. The Jays have brought Josh Thole up from the minors to catch R.A. Dickey. Hopefully Thole will turn into a decent catcher.

Surprisingly enough, at least to me, starting pitching has been a problem spot for the Jays. The Jays have picked up a new starter. The Jays picked up Chien-Ming Wang from the Yanks farm system. I remember Wang as a good pitcher who finished second in the Cy Young Awards a half dozen or more years ago. He has (had?) a sinker, splitter, slider and change up along with a fast ball which got into the 90's. I don't know if his stuff is what it used to be but I'm looking forward to watching him pitch again. He has two 19 wins seasons in a row for the Yankees.

The draft of young prospect has ended. Looks like the Jays picked up around 30 ptichers, a couple of catchers. a couple of SS's a couple of 1st basemen and a couple of outfielders. Some 40 youngsters in total. Mostly still teenagers. Still years of development ahead for them.

The first two pitchers have fastballs which are in the 90's along with other pitches. Their first pick (I think they were picking around 10th) should get a nice signing bonus. The amount for the slot in which he was picked is around $2.5 million.

Games like today are the main reason they aren't climbing back into playoff contention. Starting pitching hasn't got the job done, up 4-0 today they should have finally began the climb to .500 but failed again. Team looks really good moving forward, kind of a funny thing to say when they've sucked most of the year but their bullpen is strong, Bautista/Encarnacian seem healthy and productive, Lind is back in a major way now. These were all question marks preseason.

So why they still way out of contention ? Management was extremely slow to recognize they had major short term issues and deal with them. Their choices of replacement pitchers was for the most part terrible ( and this week bringing McGowan back now when their bullpen is fine without him doesn't seem smart ). Jenkins was the ONLY replacement starter that did extremely well, and for some strange reason they are sending him back and forth like a yo yo. Wang is a decent gamble I guess someone like that could fill at 4th or 5th starter and maybe give you a chance. Not sure why Jenkins isn't deemed a go in that role though. They might need both of them but they are going to screw up Jenkins with these layoffs for sure.

I think rather then 8 games below .500 they should be no more then 4 games below but squandered at least 4 games using guys like Laffey, the AA rookie, and starting several offensive players every day during huge early slumps. Those extra losses will hurt more if they climb back to "respectability" but remain clearly out of it. This is very likely now if there are no more huge injuries. Reyes will score a ton now in this offence. I don't expect a playoff run because their starters just aren't pitching like contenders right now, they are somewhat better but all the good teams have a stud pitcher winning almost every game ( some teams have two ) and we don't have one of those. And the math is really bad now, the Astros effect in the West makes the second wild card scenario far less likely, basically Oakland ( maybe Texas ?) got a ton of extra wins from being in Houston's division.

My feeling remains that Gibbons lacked the urgency to right the ship quickly and effectively, and you aren't going to win the AL East any year if you kind of laissez-faire your way through the season trying to appease everyone in the clubhouse. And if the trend lasts all season, I think the man who hired him should lose his job too.

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

I see the Jays were involved in an 18-inning game recently. I remember a game that the Expos lost 1-0 to the Dodgers in 22 innings (I was there - Aug. 23-24, 1989). Many weird things happened that night:

1) Youppi (Expo mascot) ejected in the 11th.
2) Expos scored the winning run in the 17th - appeal ruled the runnier out, since he left 3rd base too early.
3) Dodgers scored the winning run in the 18th - umpires didn't see that the ball bounced off the wall before it was caught - batter called out.
4) 17th inning - Dodgers had to use pitchers as pinch-hitters.
5) No Dodger walked the whole game - a record for the longest game without a walk.
6) I seem to recall a triple play (or what should have been one), but the game report doesn't mention one.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-08-...1_rick-dempsey

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

I see the Jays are re-tooling for the second half of the season. All the new players are starting to get used to each other. Only 9 1/2 games out of first and on a 4 game winning streak as I write this.

Reyes should soon be back. The Jays have brought Josh Thole up from the minors to catch R.A. Dickey. Hopefully Thole will turn into a decent catcher.

Surprisingly enough, at least to me, starting pitching has been a problem spot for the Jays. The Jays have picked up a new starter. The Jays picked up Chien-Ming Wang from the Yanks farm system. I remember Wang as a good pitcher who finished second in the Cy Young Awards a half dozen or more years ago. He has (had?) a sinker, splitter, slider and change up along with a fast ball which got into the 90's. I don't know if his stuff is what it used to be but I'm looking forward to watching him pitch again. He has two 19 wins seasons in a row for the Yankees.

The draft of young prospect has ended. Looks like the Jays picked up around 30 ptichers, a couple of catchers. a couple of SS's a couple of 1st basemen and a couple of outfielders. Some 40 youngsters in total. Mostly still teenagers. Still years of development ahead for them.

The first two pitchers have fastballs which are in the 90's along with other pitches. Their first pick (I think they were picking around 10th) should get a nice signing bonus. The amount for the slot in which he was picked is around $2.5 million.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

The season is about a third finished and we're not doing as well as hoped. Can't complain too much because the club spent money, made moves and what looked good on paper didn't seem to translate to the desired results. Now, I suppose, it's time to simply watch the games.

It's been a discouraging couple of weeks besides the Jays. The 11 year old Bichon Frise got sick with no cure. Too bad. She really liked the summer. Beware, my 12 year old terror, is still going strong. With a pure bred dog a person can always get another one but I can't quite get into the spirit of that yet.

Looks like the Jays will have another bad season against the National League.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

Ok, fine, I'm out.

TTFN. (Ta Ta For Now)

[Duncan Smith]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

LOL, so this is how you react when someone presents facts over opinion? Call someone crazy and egotistical? That's just exquisitely charming. You are truly a special human being :)

There's no point giving examples in the past. We don't live in the 20th century, this is 2013 and you have to get on with the times. I don't think you can actually read english because from what I can tell, I believe I wrote that Arencibia had a great season in AAA pacific coast league where everyone is hitting like it's Coors Field at the age of 24. D'arnaud matched that production at the age of 21 and on top of that is renowned as a great defensive catcher. But then again, you'll probably skim past this sentence and twist it into something else. You do understand that a 21 year old hitting as well as a 24 year old in the same league with better defense is a more valuable player right?

I don't know what world you live in but the Mets wanted D'arnaud in any deal, not Arencibia and even now with D'arnaud injured and Arencibia hitting homers and striking out a third of his at bats, I would want D'arnaud.

I know you love using anecdotes to back up your assumptions but here's some links with facts and statements
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...ra-dickey.html
Note here "Travis d'Arnaud was a "must have" during the winter meetings for a deal with the Blue Jays to happen, sources tell Andy Martino of the Daily News "
And here "The Mets also are expected to acquire either J.P. Arencibia or Travis d’Arnaud. However, the Blue Jays are looking to get more out of the deal if they surrender d'Arnaud."

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...ra-dickey.html
Here
"Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com says the two sides have agreed that d'Arnaud can be the centerpiece of the trade after the Mets rejected a Gose/J.P. Arencibia package"

I think it's pretty clear that everyone wanted D'arnaud over Arencibia. I like how you resort to name-calling and verbal abuse rather than present facts and statements in an argument. And before you tell me that Arencibia is a better catcher because he drives in runs and is a natural leader, just save it and actually look at his numbers. Good looks and clubhouse chemistry don't win ball-games, getting on base, being a good defensive catcher and doing something other than hit home runs and striking out does.

The verbal abuse clearly started with you and your disrespectful posts.
Clearly. Do I need to quote you from this thread ? I can illustrate this very easily. And I don't accept it. If you take that tone with me I'll take the same tact and treat you accordingly. You want a nicer conversation then recognize that there are others with equal or stronger interest in baseball that have been following it for decades.

I think what you are saying really is you lack the listening skills to discuss baseball with anyone other then casual fans. Ok, fine, I'm out.
If you think you can only lean on the last decade for information you might as well join the Pacey bandwagon that the Jays never win and don't develop good players. Because Jays haven't had a strong record the last decade, but were pretty darn good most of the rest of their history.

[Bindi Cheng]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

LOL, so this is how you react when someone presents facts over opinion? Call someone crazy and egotistical? That's just exquisitely charming. You are truly a special human being :)

There's no point giving examples in the past. We don't live in the 20th century, this is 2013 and you have to get on with the times. I don't think you can actually read english because from what I can tell, I believe I wrote that Arencibia had a great season in AAA pacific coast league where everyone is hitting like it's Coors Field at the age of 24. D'arnaud matched that production at the age of 21 and on top of that is renowned as a great defensive catcher. But then again, you'll probably skim past this sentence and twist it into something else. You do understand that a 21 year old hitting as well as a 24 year old in the same league with better defense is a more valuable player right?

I don't know what world you live in but the Mets wanted D'arnaud in any deal, not Arencibia and even now with D'arnaud injured and Arencibia hitting homers and striking out a third of his at bats, I would want D'arnaud.

I know you love using anecdotes to back up your assumptions but here's some links with facts and statements
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...ra-dickey.html
Note here "Travis d'Arnaud was a "must have" during the winter meetings for a deal with the Blue Jays to happen, sources tell Andy Martino of the Daily News "
And here "The Mets also are expected to acquire either J.P. Arencibia or Travis d’Arnaud. However, the Blue Jays are looking to get more out of the deal if they surrender d'Arnaud."

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...ra-dickey.html
Here
"Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com says the two sides have agreed that d'Arnaud can be the centerpiece of the trade after the Mets rejected a Gose/J.P. Arencibia package"

I think it's pretty clear that everyone wanted D'arnaud over Arencibia. I like how you resort to name-calling and verbal abuse rather than present facts and statements in an argument. And before you tell me that Arencibia is a better catcher because he drives in runs and is a natural leader, just save it and actually look at his numbers. Good looks and clubhouse chemistry don't win ball-games, getting on base, being a good defensive catcher and doing something other than hit home runs and striking out does.

[Duncan Smith]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

Oh please, you've totally lost it, I wish you'd park your ego and understand I know at least as much and probably more then you do about baseball. Your obsession with numbers is way over the top. You need PERSPECTIVE on how to use those numbers.

For example, league MVP at AAA level speaks directly to how baseball people and peers think about a player.

Adam Dunn would be starting at age 28. Any player who hits 25-30 hr starts. Do you remember Rob Deer ? Oh wait, you'll have to Google him because you don't know everything do you son ?

And your claim that everyone wanted D'Arnaud over Arencebia is untrue. Actions speak larger then words. Arencebia has the job. The Jays have traded every major league ready catcher in their system over 4 years on the basis that he's their man. End of story.
And if you truly followed baseball, you'd know that catchers tend to reach their potential at a later age then other players.

And when you post that somehow I might not be aware about the Mariners when I specifically referred to them, I think you are being excruciatingly stupid. The Mariners need a power bat. THAT'S WHY I MENTIONED THEM.

[Bindi Cheng]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

I should have checked your claims out when you posted this. Arencebia hit 32 hrs in 2/3 of a season in the PCL and was named league MVP. So your claim was that Arencebia, after only two seasons in the majors just "isn't very good" !!!!!

Every team needs run producers. If you can get production out of your catcher or SS, even better. There are reasons why guys like Adam Dunn still have a place in baseball. If they can catch, hell, you have a major league job for life. You called him a "20 hr guy" and that was misleading because that's the low point of his range ( it's also in a catcher's normal season, less ab's then most sluggers ). If you think guys like this grow on trees well tell me then why teams like the Mariners can't even find a single guy to bat clean up ( any position ) and produce at Arencebia's level.

D'Arnaud, who knows, he has zero major league experience so far and seems to get injured a lot.

Duncan, for all your bashing on Kevin Pacey as a casual fan, you seem to be a typical casual fan defending Arencibia because of all his homers. Adam Dunn still gets a place in baseball because not only does he get paid a lot of money, he is a true 3 outcome player - hits homers, strikes out a shit ton and walks a lot. Adam Dunn has actually been awful early on in this season and his old-player skills have been declining steadily as he grows older. Imagine if Adam Dunn is 28 years old with a minimum league contract - he would not be starting.

LOL RUN PRODUCING LMFAO - are you serious? Driving in runs is only a product of where he's hitting in the batting order. And the only reason he's hitting cleanup is because he only hits homers or strikes out - therefore no gidp if Bautista or Encarnacion gets on base. He used to hit in the 8th hole but luckily for him, Jays have some really bad hitters in those places right now - Kawasaki, Bonafacio, Izturis, Rasmus (who strikes out just as much) Have you seen his triple slash line? 230 batting average, 246 on base % and 475 slugging. For all his homers, he's opsing +89, basically 11% below league average. He's going to be much worse when he goes on a 20 game homerless streak. Have I mentioned his walk rate is 2nd worst with 2 walks in 142 plate appearances (The leader, Jeff Keppinger, has 0 walks) and his strikeout rate is monstrous at 48 strikeouts in 142 plate appearances? I think he's one of the league leaders there too.

If you have to ask why Mariners can't field a proper cleanup hitter, you probably haven't been watching them play in recent years. They are one of the worst hitting ballclubs in the past 3 years. That's what happens when you employed Chone Figgins for 2 years while he was worth negative WAR.

D'Arnaud > Arencibia. When everyone wants D'Arnaud over Arencibia (including the front office staff) that usually means something, even with the injury concerns.

[Duncan Smith]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

The thing is... Arencibia just isn't that good. I know everyone loves seeing 20 homers from a catcher but he has a career 275 opb with slightly below average defense and a tendency to strike out a TON. Before 2012, he was one of the worst defensive catchers in the league so he actually took a step forward since then. He was a AAA star but that was in the PCL league, an extremely hitter friendly environment - think Coors field in Colorado, and he did it in his 2nd year. His first year at PCL had a triple slash line of something like 230/330/440, the major league equivalent of Jeff Mathis (check his career MLB stats). D'Arnaud's first year at PCL in a injury-shortened season had him hitting like 330/380/570. He essentially matched Arencibia's 2nd year at the PCL environment while being 2 years younger at the time and having superior defensive ability.

Catchers with 20 homers do not grow on trees but if they cant get on base, they're not that useful in the grand scheme of things. The Jays are not that strong in catching as essentially their next prospect after Arencibia is Jiminez all the way down in Single A (I believe) That means it will take probably 3 years before we get anyone other than Arencibia. Yeah... I'm not impressed with the deal as I'm hoping AA doesn't sign the contract. Plus, I'm sure he was upset with all the leaks in the trade, I know I would be if something that important to me was chronicled step by step.

I should have checked your claims out when you posted this. Arencebia hit 32 hrs in 2/3 of a season in the PCL and was named league MVP. So your claim was that Arencebia, after only two seasons in the majors just "isn't very good" !!!!!

Every team needs run producers. If you can get production out of your catcher or SS, even better. There are reasons why guys like Adam Dunn still have a place in baseball. If they can catch, hell, you have a major league job for life. You called him a "20 hr guy" and that was misleading because that's the low point of his range ( it's also in a catcher's normal season, less ab's then most sluggers ). If you think guys like this grow on trees well tell me then why teams like the Mariners can't even find a single guy to bat clean up ( any position ) and produce at Arencebia's level.

D'Arnaud, who knows, he has zero major league experience so far and seems to get injured a lot.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Toronto Blue Jays!!

I used to watch the Jays in the bad old days when they started. The only player who was really worth watching was Dave Stieb. He wanted to win every time he pitched. I think he was a converted outfielder and could field his position very well when he pitched.

I'd go to exhibition stadium and later the Skydome maybe half dozen times a year. The Skydome is a walk from the Go Train so I haven't gone for a lot of years now. Steib pitched more times when I was there than getting tickets for random dates would indicate.

I'd love to see the Jays and Leafs win it all again, but knowing they won't doesn't stop me from watching. We've had some really good players over the years even though the teams didn't make it.

I went to Exhibition Stadium at least twice with a friend, to watch the Jays in the 1980s. They won and lost by lopsided scores in the two times that I recall. Steib was pitching in the win (can't recall against which team, but for the bad loss it was 7-0 versus KC).

I went to Maple Leaf Gardens once, in the late 1970s with my father. The Leafs lost to the Penguins in that game, 5-2. It's not like on TV, in that during the silence for a commercial break I heard some leather-lung holler "Nice team, Ballard!".