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Cooperative Chess Coalition (CCC) – Chess Reform? – Women’s World Chess Championship – Inferior?
In the Judeo-Christian context, God rested on the 7th day of the week. However, CCC has chosen the 7th day of the month to work - to explore “moderate chess reform”!!
CCC presents the second of its “ 7th day chess reform issues “! (Of course, real life may intervene to push our post a bit before or after the 7th). Here we investigate “ possible “ moderate chess reform actions – these may be at the international/FIDE level, or at the national federation level, or at the local level (re chess clubs, tournament organization, etc.). CCC acts as moderator, assisting both sides to tease out the arguments, and tries to remain neutral. Whether the issue is to be pursued by CCC is dependent on the general response to the “ reform posts “. Have your say!! Post a comment!
(If you have an issue you’d like debated, send us an e-mail [ cooperativechesscoalition@gmail.com ] and if possible, insert a summary of your arguments. We’ll use them, alone, or in the context of one of our own posts. )
Women’s World Chess Championship – An Alternative Format?
FIDE has given the women of the world a 64-player knockout system for determining the Women's World Champion, to be held every 2nd year ( every alternate year, the sitting Women’s World Champion plays a title match of 12 games against a “ Challenger “ ). The sitting Champion must play in the knockout, the same as every other player - no special privileges for being champion. The round consists of only a 2-game match, with tie-break at faster time control.
This knockout championship is only one of a possible number of championship formats. Some say its weakness was made startlingly apparent in this year’s 2012 WWCC .
In the second round:
TOP THREE ELIMINATED:
Hou Yifan ( China ), sitting women's World Champion and # 3 woman in the world,
Humpy Koneru ( India ), # 2 woman in the world, and
Anna Muzychuk ( Slovenia ), # 4 woman in the world
In the third round:
4th seed eliminated: Zhao Xue ( China )
By the semi-finals ( the last four ):
only 2 of the 4 were GM’s!
The Champion:
IM/WGM Anna Ushenina – only # 37 in the women’s world rankings, and a non-GM.
As Jack Maguire noted on the Canadian national scholastic chess discussion board of Chess ‘n Math Association, Chesstalk, re the finals match:
“What arrant nonsense! The #19 ranked woman in the world, Antoaneta Stefanova (2491), playing the #38 [ became # 37 in Dec. 2012 List ] ranked woman in the world, Anna Ushenina (2452), for the so-called title of Woman World Champion. Talk about debasing a title!”
Such a decimation can only be explained by the lottery format of only 2-game matches, within the knockout system. Now Scarborough CC secretary, Steve Karpik, has noted that many sports use a knockout system for determining a champion, and these tournaments are wildly popular, world-wide: The World Cup for soccer; The Stanley Cup, for North American hockey; in USA College basketball; etc. So it may be that the knockout format is fine in and of itself, for determining a champion – but many say certainly not in chess with only 2-game matches – it too significantly introduces a “ chance “ element into the sport where the final determinate is supposed to be “ skill “.
It is interesting to compare the placement of the knockout system in determining the World Chess Champion. It is only one of two preliminary phases in the determination of a “ Challenger “ for the World Title. It is called the World Cup, but only sends 2 of the 8 players who go into the second phase, the Candidates’ Tournament. It’s significance is much diminished in the World Championship cycle. It also has 2-game matches initially, and many feel that it is the lottery aspect of this format, that has led to it being downgraded ( where for a while in the late 1900’s and early 2000’s, FIDE had used it for their World Championship determination ).
Yet for women, it is the determining format for the Women’s World Champion!??
Some argue that the 2012 Women’s World Chess Championship shows how “ INFERIOR “ the women’s format is, compared to the open World Championship format. Some go so far as to say it is evidence within FIDE of “ discrimination “ against women – failure to give them a system of equal quality. Others say this is going too far. But the question remains – is there a problem with the Women’s World Chess Championship??
A second issue also surfaces in this debate, one that has swirled around the World Chess Championship since it was instituted. By tradition, from the very start, the chess culture has given great respect to the sitting champion. In the early years, the Champion actually determined who would be his “ Challenger “ in a match to defend his world title. Then FIDE took over after WWII, and instituted a series of playdowns ( zonals; inter-zonals ) to determine a “ Challenger “ for the title. In more recent years we have seen the introduction of the World Cup and the Grand Prix as preliminary phases.
But the one constant ( except for a few rare occasions ) has been that the Champion gets to defend his title in a “ match “. Tournaments, with the Champion being just another player, have not, in chess, been a popular format to determine a world chess champion.
EXCEPT, as we’ve seen, in women’s chess, where the match format appears every 2nd year!??
Steve has again noted that chess shares this “ match “ championship format, with only a few modern sports – boxing and wrestling ( and maybe some others ). But it is clear that FIDE, and it seems the chess world generally, approve of the historically-based format of determining a “ Challenger “ by some preliminary system, and then holding a “ Championship Match “.
Yet some ask:
“ Then why has FIDE not done this for women in chess? Why every 2nd year, a tournament that determines the Women’s World Chess Champion? “
Is this some evidence of an element of discrimination against women in chess? Some ask if there is any legitimate reason that can be given for the difference between the World Championship, and the Women’s World Championship?
If one was going to bring the women’s system more in line with the World Championship system, what might it look like?
Some list the following problems/ solutions re the current WWCC tournament every 2nd year:
1. Knockout system to determine a Women’s World Champion – lottery with 2-game matches – discriminatory compared to the World Championship system – need to downgrade its importance substantially;
2. A Candidates’ Tournament ( round robin )
-: Need a multi-system feed in from
a. Women’s Grand Prix – 6 tournaments over 2 years ( as currently ) – contributes 3 top finishers to Candidates’ Tournament
b. Women’s World Cup – every 2nd year – zonal reps.- contributes 2 finalists to Candidates’ Tournament
- 8 players – 5 as above; loser of the most recent Women’s World Championship match, & 2 from rating list. Winner becomes the “ Challenger “ for the title, in a Championship Match.
3. .Length of WWCC match – go to 16 games from 12 – lessen chance of draw after regular play. Every 2nd year.
Those wanting reform point to the following schedule for a reformed WWCC:
Time Chart
Year 1 – 2nd half of Women’s Grand Prix ll Women’s World Cup
Year 2 – Women’s Candidates’ Tournament ll Women’s World Championship Match ll 1st half of new Women’s Grand Prix
Year 3 - 2nd half of new Women’s Grand Prix ll Women’s World Cup
And repeated.
_________________________________________________________________
It may be relevant that the Chess Federation of Canada ( CFC ) FIDE Representative, Hal Bond, on Nov. 17, 2012, on the Canadian scholastic chess discussion board, Chesstalk, posted:
"This [ WWCC ] tournament really hi-lights the difference between the Men's and Women's World Championships.
The Men's (Open, Absolute whatever) Champ waits for a match challenger every two years. The Women's Champ defends her title every year, including this knockout style event every other year.
Maybe lessons from one system will influence the other. It seems that one is too easy, the other too tough! "
Is he indicating that he is open to bringing a motion to the CFC Governors' Meeting, to have Canada endorse a reform proposal such as the above, re the WWCC??
CCC, an all-male organization, except for one supporter ( a former Canadian Women’s Olympiad team member ), is looking to the women chess players of the world, as to whether they have any objection to their current system, as provided by FIDE? And if so, are they moved at all to carry out any kind of protest of the situation? It is a women’s issue, and they must indicate if they want something to be changed.
If you ( female or male ) solidly support the current WWCC, then advise why! If not, give reasons. Post if you support this possible proposal to reform the Women’s WCC, so CCC knows if there is public support for it ( female and male ). If you can’t support it, post why – maybe some compromise is possible.
Let’s have a thorough debate on the issue, to see if CCC should develop some position on the proposal!! Let’s find out what the women chess players think!
Cooperative Chess Coalition (CCC) – Chess Reform? – Women’s World Chess Championship – Inferior?
In the Judeo-Christian context, God rested on the 7th day of the week. However, CCC has chosen the 7th day of the month to work - to explore “moderate chess reform”!!
CCC presents the second of its “ 7th day chess reform issues “! (Of course, real life may intervene to push our post a bit before or after the 7th). Here we investigate “ possible “ moderate chess reform actions – these may be at the international/FIDE level, or at the national federation level, or at the local level (re chess clubs, tournament organization, etc.). CCC acts as moderator, assisting both sides to tease out the arguments, and tries to remain neutral. Whether the issue is to be pursued by CCC is dependent on the general response to the “ reform posts “. Have your say!! Post a comment!
(If you have an issue you’d like debated, send us an e-mail [ cooperativechesscoalition@gmail.com ] and if possible, insert a summary of your arguments. We’ll use them, alone, or in the context of one of our own posts. )
Women’s World Chess Championship – An Alternative Format?
FIDE has given the women of the world a 64-player knockout system for determining the Women's World Champion, to be held every 2nd year ( every alternate year, the sitting Women’s World Champion plays a title match of 12 games against a “ Challenger “ ). The sitting Champion must play in the knockout, the same as every other player - no special privileges for being champion. The round consists of only a 2-game match, with tie-break at faster time control.
This knockout championship is only one of a possible number of championship formats. Some say its weakness was made startlingly apparent in this year’s 2012 WWCC .
In the second round:
TOP THREE ELIMINATED:
Hou Yifan ( China ), sitting women's World Champion and # 3 woman in the world,
Humpy Koneru ( India ), # 2 woman in the world, and
Anna Muzychuk ( Slovenia ), # 4 woman in the world
In the third round:
4th seed eliminated: Zhao Xue ( China )
By the semi-finals ( the last four ):
only 2 of the 4 were GM’s!
The Champion:
IM/WGM Anna Ushenina – only # 37 in the women’s world rankings, and a non-GM.
As Jack Maguire noted on the Canadian national scholastic chess discussion board of Chess ‘n Math Association, Chesstalk, re the finals match:
“What arrant nonsense! The #19 ranked woman in the world, Antoaneta Stefanova (2491), playing the #38 [ became # 37 in Dec. 2012 List ] ranked woman in the world, Anna Ushenina (2452), for the so-called title of Woman World Champion. Talk about debasing a title!”
Such a decimation can only be explained by the lottery format of only 2-game matches, within the knockout system. Now Scarborough CC secretary, Steve Karpik, has noted that many sports use a knockout system for determining a champion, and these tournaments are wildly popular, world-wide: The World Cup for soccer; The Stanley Cup, for North American hockey; in USA College basketball; etc. So it may be that the knockout format is fine in and of itself, for determining a champion – but many say certainly not in chess with only 2-game matches – it too significantly introduces a “ chance “ element into the sport where the final determinate is supposed to be “ skill “.
It is interesting to compare the placement of the knockout system in determining the World Chess Champion. It is only one of two preliminary phases in the determination of a “ Challenger “ for the World Title. It is called the World Cup, but only sends 2 of the 8 players who go into the second phase, the Candidates’ Tournament. It’s significance is much diminished in the World Championship cycle. It also has 2-game matches initially, and many feel that it is the lottery aspect of this format, that has led to it being downgraded ( where for a while in the late 1900’s and early 2000’s, FIDE had used it for their World Championship determination ).
Yet for women, it is the determining format for the Women’s World Champion!??
Some argue that the 2012 Women’s World Chess Championship shows how “ INFERIOR “ the women’s format is, compared to the open World Championship format. Some go so far as to say it is evidence within FIDE of “ discrimination “ against women – failure to give them a system of equal quality. Others say this is going too far. But the question remains – is there a problem with the Women’s World Chess Championship??
A second issue also surfaces in this debate, one that has swirled around the World Chess Championship since it was instituted. By tradition, from the very start, the chess culture has given great respect to the sitting champion. In the early years, the Champion actually determined who would be his “ Challenger “ in a match to defend his world title. Then FIDE took over after WWII, and instituted a series of playdowns ( zonals; inter-zonals ) to determine a “ Challenger “ for the title. In more recent years we have seen the introduction of the World Cup and the Grand Prix as preliminary phases.
But the one constant ( except for a few rare occasions ) has been that the Champion gets to defend his title in a “ match “. Tournaments, with the Champion being just another player, have not, in chess, been a popular format to determine a world chess champion.
EXCEPT, as we’ve seen, in women’s chess, where the match format appears every 2nd year!??
Steve has again noted that chess shares this “ match “ championship format, with only a few modern sports – boxing and wrestling ( and maybe some others ). But it is clear that FIDE, and it seems the chess world generally, approve of the historically-based format of determining a “ Challenger “ by some preliminary system, and then holding a “ Championship Match “.
Yet some ask:
“ Then why has FIDE not done this for women in chess? Why every 2nd year, a tournament that determines the Women’s World Chess Champion? “
Is this some evidence of an element of discrimination against women in chess? Some ask if there is any legitimate reason that can be given for the difference between the World Championship, and the Women’s World Championship?
If one was going to bring the women’s system more in line with the World Championship system, what might it look like?
Some list the following problems/ solutions re the current WWCC tournament every 2nd year:
1. Knockout system to determine a Women’s World Champion – lottery with 2-game matches – discriminatory compared to the World Championship system – need to downgrade its importance substantially;
2. A Candidates’ Tournament ( round robin )
-: Need a multi-system feed in from
a. Women’s Grand Prix – 6 tournaments over 2 years ( as currently ) – contributes 3 top finishers to Candidates’ Tournament
b. Women’s World Cup – every 2nd year – zonal reps.- contributes 2 finalists to Candidates’ Tournament
- 8 players – 5 as above; loser of the most recent Women’s World Championship match, & 2 from rating list. Winner becomes the “ Challenger “ for the title, in a Championship Match.
3. .Length of WWCC match – go to 16 games from 12 – lessen chance of draw after regular play. Every 2nd year.
Those wanting reform point to the following schedule for a reformed WWCC:
Time Chart
Year 1 – 2nd half of Women’s Grand Prix ll Women’s World Cup
Year 2 – Women’s Candidates’ Tournament ll Women’s World Championship Match ll 1st half of new Women’s Grand Prix
Year 3 - 2nd half of new Women’s Grand Prix ll Women’s World Cup
And repeated.
_________________________________________________________________
It may be relevant that the Chess Federation of Canada ( CFC ) FIDE Representative, Hal Bond, on Nov. 17, 2012, on the Canadian scholastic chess discussion board, Chesstalk, posted:
"This [ WWCC ] tournament really hi-lights the difference between the Men's and Women's World Championships.
The Men's (Open, Absolute whatever) Champ waits for a match challenger every two years. The Women's Champ defends her title every year, including this knockout style event every other year.
Maybe lessons from one system will influence the other. It seems that one is too easy, the other too tough! "
Is he indicating that he is open to bringing a motion to the CFC Governors' Meeting, to have Canada endorse a reform proposal such as the above, re the WWCC??
CCC, an all-male organization, except for one supporter ( a former Canadian Women’s Olympiad team member ), is looking to the women chess players of the world, as to whether they have any objection to their current system, as provided by FIDE? And if so, are they moved at all to carry out any kind of protest of the situation? It is a women’s issue, and they must indicate if they want something to be changed.
If you ( female or male ) solidly support the current WWCC, then advise why! If not, give reasons. Post if you support this possible proposal to reform the Women’s WCC, so CCC knows if there is public support for it ( female and male ). If you can’t support it, post why – maybe some compromise is possible.
Let’s have a thorough debate on the issue, to see if CCC should develop some position on the proposal!! Let’s find out what the women chess players think!
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