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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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My feeling is that someday we will find out what technique he used to receive moves relayed by an accomplice or accomplices
and we will finally put aside nonsense like he 'trained himself' to think like Houdini...
That's a very scientific conclusion you have reached. Presently you have a theory with nothing to show for the conclusion.
That's a very scientific conclusion you have reached. Presently you have a theory with nothing to show for the conclusion.
I did not use the word 'conclusion' or 'scientific'. "My feeling..." indicates my guess how this will resolve.
My guess is that he is cheating but I have no idea how.
Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Borislav Ivanov and Rapid Chess
I take it from a forum posting that the Bulgarian Chess Federation asked Ivanov to come in to their offices Wednesday for a series of psychological and polygraph assessments of his play. He consented. But, while they waited, he went off to Varna to play in a tournament there but was not allowed to participate. The text below is google-translated (as provided in the forum) and is rather rough:
The sensational success of the talented young boy from Blagoevgrad provoked many comments. The best Bulgarian players declared that they would not play in tournaments with his participation and his federation stopped racing straight about 4 month which was unsuccessfully challenged in court.
Because of this BCF organize specialized tests with help of company for polygraph's services and psychological assessments ASES. Borislav Ivanov personally announced in a statement: "I give consent to participate in the delivery of specialized tests with technical means to prove objectively with scientific means, that I do not use any unfair means in the game."
The test was scheduled to provide on June 19 at 13.00 in the offices of BCF in the Sport's building. How important is this talks presence of the President of BCF and the European Chess Union Silvio Danailov, his deputy, Prof. Nikolay Nedkov, CEO Nikolay Velchev, Head of Sector "Chess" at the NSA Radislav Atanasov, representatives of the Blagoevgrad club "Victory."
At the same time, however, Borislav Ivanov went to Varna with the illusion that he would participate in the open international tournament, which did not happen. After he failed to appear the test Silvio Danailov said that Bulgarian federation has already ended with this case. According to Todor Todorov, General Manager of the company ASES, these tests are objective, reliable, and through polygraph these tests can establish an abuse. In preparing the psychological portrait it is establishes the probability of occurrence of unfair behavior. Possibility of error does not exist. Any adverse factors such as momentary state of mind or artistic talents also can overcome. According to Silvio Danailov our federation is unable for "replay the game" with new tests. They have enough other commitments, and Danailov came from Spain especially for this event.
Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Borislav Ivanov and Rapid Chess
Rather than "psychological and polygraph assessments of his play" I would prefer to see some sort of evidence in the form of a commumication device, or an accomplice.
Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Borislav Ivanov and Rapid Chess
The situation has degenerated into a farce. Danilov flies in from Spain, the members of the BCF are sitting in their offices ready to administer the barrage of tests and Ivanov thumbs his nose at them and goes off to play in another tournament.
I know it is a serious situation but really, I feel like laughing.
Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Borislav Ivanov and Rapid Chess
Yes, it is laughable. Danilov is especially well respected (cough). The big question from this point on is whether tournament organizers will admit him into tournaments and, if so, which opponents will refuse to play him? This has the potential to turn into a serious problem; it may be that FIDE (?) may have to issue a ban on his participation just to maintain order - despite concrete evidence. If FIDE doesn't issue a ban, individual tournament organizers might have to take it on themselves to refuse to let him play otherwise the crosstables, pairings etc will become a farce.
Perhaps you should be the scientist, Egidijus. You do Felix's work for him.
Felix, you can publish opinions here on Chesstalk without supplying evidence, thumbing your nose at readers and saying "Google it yourself". Don't expect to get away with the same behavior in the real world of scientific proof. Maybe you should hire Egidijus as your assistant?
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Borislav Ivanov and Rapid Chess
The very first post says they strip searched him and found nothing. They have the option of erecting partitions and making cubicles for the top boards. If his excellence continues then maybe he's as good as he play.
Personally, I think it's outrageous to strip search a chess player in what amounts to a fishing trip. I wonder who shoved the digit where the sun doesn't shine, if they went that far.
In any case, I don't see why I should continue arguing. The guy is cheating, there's not a single doubt. I spend my days with a supercomputer. Last time I checked, I could not do calculations that required 46 TB of RAM by myself. Maybe I don't learn fast enough? No doubt I should hire Borislav Ivanov to do my calculations... After all, he learned how to calculate billion of positions per second by playing against houdini!
Yes, do not continue arguing. Do not defend your position against reasonable doubt. What a great scientist you will make!
Kenneth Regan's paper is so much toilet paper because he compares Ivanov's performances and moves against what would be expected of 2300-level players NONE OF WHOM SPENT MONTHS STUDYING TO PLAY LIKE HOUDINI BY PLAYING HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF GAMES AGAINST HOUDINI.
Therefore, Regan and you both ignore what you are up against here: a new type of player. A player who has taken dramatic steps to be like Houdini, and apparently succeeded.
He is NOT calculating billions of positions per second nor requiring 46 TB of RAM (actually, that is puny compared to the capacity of the human brain). He is learning in the same way that humans learn to speak and read and write a language. You don't learn that language effectively if you are daily surrounded by people speaking many, many diverse languages. You learn effectively when you are brought up surrounded by people speaking the language you are learning. Thus, GMs cannot play like Houdini by playing innumerable different human opponents. But playing thousands of games over many months against only Houdini and Rybka, that is the new situation that you and Kenneth Regan and others fail to recognize. There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.
You cannot disprove nor dismiss my theory until such time as others have taken the steps Ivanov took and then played in human events against much stronger opposition. And of course, that is too much work for anyone to even contemplate. Much easier to just declare Ivanov guilty.
History does repeat itself, this all smacks of McCarthyism:
"During the McCarthy era, thousands of Americans were accused of being communists or communist sympathizers and became the subject of aggressive investigations and questioning before government or private-industry panels, committees and agencies. The primary targets of such suspicions were government employees, those in the entertainment industry, educators and union activists. Suspicions were often given credence despite inconclusive or questionable evidence, and the level of threat posed by a person's real or supposed leftist associations or beliefs was often greatly exaggerated. Many people suffered loss of employment and/or destruction of their careers; some even suffered imprisonment. Most of these punishments came about through trial verdicts later overturned,[2] laws that would be declared unconstitutional,[3] dismissals for reasons later declared illegal[4] or actionable,[5] or extra-legal procedures that would come into general disrepute."
And hey, world: if you want to prove he's cheating, use some common sense. What does he absolutely need in order to cheat, given that no one has seen him making any physical signals to a possible collaborator?
He absolutely must have a transmitter / receiver that emits and receives electromagnetic radiation.
Oh, let's search him for implanted devices, Darn, can't find any, but we can't look everywhere, civil rights and all that.
Put Dr. Rodney McKay on the case and you'd have your guilty / not guilty verdict in 5 minutes.
Lack of any detectable and unusual EM radiation, verifiably repeating during each time interval starting with Ivanov's opponent's move and ending with Ivanov's reply... plus lack of any detectable physical signals during that same interval... means he cannot be cheating.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Borislav Ivanov and Rapid Chess
There seems to be 3 types of people on chesstalk - Paul Bonham, those that Paul Bonham disagrees with and those that agree with him. It seems that the first and third types are a rarity among this message board.
The very first post says they strip searched him and found nothing.
Could you find a thing when you don't know what you are looking for?
Probably they looked for a cell phone thing in his pockets - take your jacket - tap here tap there, nothing :/ I think it is a more sophisticated thing than a simple phone. Microactuators could be installed in shoes to do a Morse code. In the ear with other small components in the jacket's buttons. Use your imagination :)
I guess that stuff must be legal in Europe.
Probably it was done with his agreement.
If he would never play again and he would be not catch with all his equipment, then only rumors will flow around how he did this. As nobody will get a chance to search his house and his computers; get all kind of internet / phone logs from the tournament sites.
Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Borislav Ivanov and Rapid Chess
Originally posted by Paul Bonham;69357*.
Therefore, Regan and you both ignore what you are up against here: a new type of player. A player who has taken dramatic steps to be like Houdini, and apparently succeeded.
He is NOT calculating billions of positions per second nor requiring 46 TB of RAM (actually, that is puny compared to the capacity of the human brain). He is learning in the same way that humans learn to speak and read and write a language. You don't learn that language effectively if you are daily surrounded by people speaking many, many diverse languages. You learn effectively when you are brought up surrounded by people speaking the language you are learning. Thus, GMs cannot play like Houdini by playing innumerable different human opponents. But playing thousands of games over many months against only Houdini and Rybka, that is the new situation that you and Kenneth Regan and others fail to recognize. There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.
You cannot disprove nor dismiss my theory until such time as others have taken the steps Ivanov took and then played in human events against much stronger opposition. And of course, that is too much work for anyone to even contemplate. Much easier to just declare Ivanov guilty.
History does repeat itself, this all smacks of McCarthyism:
[url
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism[/url]
And hey, world: if you want to prove he's cheating, use some common sense. What does he absolutely need in order to cheat, given that no one has seen him making any physical signals to a possible collaborator?
He absolutely must have a transmitter / receiver that emits and receives electromagnetic radiation.
Oh, let's search him for implanted devices, Darn, can't find any, but we can't look everywhere, civil rights and all that.
Put Dr. Rodney McKay on the case and you'd have your guilty / not guilty verdict in 5 minutes.
Lack of any detectable and unusual EM radiation, verifiably repeating during each time interval starting with Ivanov's opponent's move and ending with Ivanov's reply... plus lack of any detectable physical signals during that same interval... means he cannot be cheating.
What are you trying to prove? You suddently have a ridiculous idea, and because nobody can disprove it (there are tons of ridiculous hypotheses we can't disprove), it's true?
There are ridiculous posters on this board. But I'm afraid you probably beat them all. You just lose your days arguing with everybody, writing non-sense and pretending you know everything on every single subject. What are you doing of your days beside arguing on Chesstalk? I have no time to refute every single of your garbage posts, because I spend my days doing real, useful research, not making the fool on this board. I won't lose hours trying to prove that the human brain CANNOT learn everything from a machine that is only good at calculating billions of variations and has no real instinct. And if you can't read the very first post of this thread or use Google, then why the hell would we lose time arguing with someone like you?
Could you find a thing when you don't know what you are looking for?
Probably they looked for a cell phone thing in his pockets - take your jacket - tap here tap there, nothing :/ I think it is a more sophisticated thing than a simple phone. Microactuators could be installed in shoes to do a Morse code. In the ear with other small components in the jacket's buttons. Use your imagination :)
A strip search is what the term implies as far as I know. Off comes the clothes. That would include checking the shoes. Otherwise it would not be called a strip search. Mostly I wouldn't think they would look for an elephant in a match box sort of thing but they might have been looking for something as small as something in the ear in this kind of search.
You could google the legal definition of a strip search.
I think there are a lot of bad losers who are losing to a good player and they don't like it.
They did know what they were looking for. They were looking for anything which would allow the player to cheat and they did not find that.
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