Anthropogenic Negative Climate Change (ANCC)

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  • Hi Bob A.

    I don't believe you fully appreciate the overwhelming scientific consensus on the issue. The climate change denial camp is very vocal and well funded. They push out an enormous amount of propaganda and they flood the internet with it. I am not surprised it gets traction but in the long run their arguments are weak. After decades, the world did come together and accept the science with the Paris Agreement in 2015 to take action to fight climate change. 195 signature countries.

    But in 2016, Republicans embraced Donald Trump for a variety of reasons, including the belief that climate change is a hoax. Hopefully Americans come to their senses in November and turn away from the dark side.

    Comment


    • Hi Bob G & Sid:

      I agree that I am not super educated on Climate Change, though I consider it humanity's fundamentally critical current issue.

      It portends the possible end of the human species. We must reverse the increasingly hostile changes to the Earth's environment, if at all possible, or at least slow down the rate of deterioration, or else we have to ingeniously figure out, likely earlier rather than later, how to survive the most hostile environment man has ever had to face since rising out of the primordial waters. It is not at all clear man is up to the task.

      I believe Bob G earlier posted a video of Potholer54 that dealt with the issue of whether the Earth has a natural cycling, eons long, between cooling and warming. I'm sorry but I don't remember if he agreed that such a cycle exists, and if so, whether Earth is currently in a warming cycle. It seemed that whether the answer is yes or no to this, he wanted mankind to take significant action now to reduce "mankind's contribution" to negative climate change through its technology, which is causing some (All?) of the problem. Could you re-post the URL for that video? I will watch it.

      I believe Sid also had a video, or article, which took the position that there is such a cycling, and we are in a heating-up cycle. If he wouldn't mind posting it again, I will watch it.

      Thanks.

      Bob A (T-S/P)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post


        I don't believe you fully appreciate the overwhelming scientific consensus on the issue.
        Less consensus than has existed for centuries, and still very widespread, of a heaven high above in the skies and a hell deep down under....

        Comment


        • The Problem of Warming Air/Atmosphere

          Glacier Melting

          Antarctica

          "A ‘Doomsday’ glacier the size of Florida may melt faster than expected, study finds
          The Thwaites Glacier is “holding on today by its fingernails,” researchers say, after data suggests a historical period of “rapid retreat” may soon repeat itself."

          Subscribers Only

          https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...fIeDCYt2VWqL3U

          Greenland

          "Ice sheet set to raise sea levels by nearly a foot, study finds.

          Human-driven climate change has set in motion massive ice losses in Greenland that couldn’t be halted even if the world stopped emitting greenhouse gases today, according to a new study published Monday (Aug. 29, 2022)"

          Subscribers Only

          https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-r...m=4&linktot=70

          ~ Bob A (T-S/P)
          Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Tuesday, 6th September, 2022, 09:00 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post

            I believe Bob G earlier posted a video of Potholer54 that dealt with the issue of whether the Earth has a natural cycling, eons long, between cooling and warming. I'm sorry but I don't remember if he agreed that such a cycle exists,
            When you delve deeper into the climate change debate, you will discover several natural cycles affecting the natural warming or cooling off the environment. They can vary from a mere decade to millions of years. Measuring the effects and deciding which are relevant or not, is a challenge. The cycles are real, but often used simply to confuse the layperson. Potholer54 has a library of several dozen videos on youtube to help you wade thru the confusion. I will leave it to you to find the correct video if you choose to.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post

              When you delve deeper into the climate change debate, you will discover several natural cycles affecting the natural warming or cooling off the environment. They can vary from a mere decade to millions of years. Measuring the effects and deciding which are relevant or not, is a challenge. The cycles are real, but often used simply to confuse the layperson. Potholer54 has a library of several dozen videos on youtube to help you wade thru the confusion. I will leave it to you to find the correct video if you choose to.


              "The one thing constant about temperature is that it is never constant. We find it rising and falling no matter what time scale we observe, be it hundreds of years or tens of millions of years. This chart, showing the 10,000 years of temperature changes since the end of the last ice age confirms this truism. Here we see quite large temperature swings much greater than what has been observed in the last 150 or so years. Each one of those moves up or down were caused entirely by natural forces. Those promoting the notion that man’s actions are the primary driver of recent temperature changes require that you believe that these natural forces suddenly and inexplicably ceased functioning at the beginning of the 20th century and that human emissions are now responsible."

              Source(s): Temp: Alley, R.B. 2004. GISP2 Ice Core Temperature and Accumulation Data. IGBP PAGES/World Data Center for Paleoclimatology Data Contribution Series #2004-013. NOAA/NGDC Paleoclimatology Program, Boulder CO, USA.
              Source(s): Current Temp: Box JE, Yang L, Bromwich DH, Bai L (2009) Greenland Ice Sheet Surface Air Temperature Variability: 1840–2007*. American Meteorological Society, Journal of Climate Vol 22, pp 4029 - 4049


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              • "Recent research by the Niels Bohr Institute (Dahl-Jensen 2013) was the first to target ice accumulated in Greenland during the previous interglacial period, known as the Eemian. The results revealed that the Eemian interglacial warm period, between 130,000 and 115,000 years ago, was much warmer than previously thought. In fact, it was, 8°C (14.4°F) warmer than today. The implications are enormous. Even though the temperatures during the Eemian were 2.5°C (4.5°F) higher than even the most aggressive IPCC predictions, the Greenland ice sheet lost only a quarter of its mass. While 25% is significant, it is far less than the predictions of total ice elimination in response to far less warming. Also, polar bears evolved about 150,000 years ago and survived the Eemian warm period even though there was seldom any polar ice.

                The polar bears survived. Greenland didn’t melt.

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                Source(s): Dahl-Jensen, Niels Bohr Inst, http://www.nbi.ku.dk/english/news/news13/greenland-ice-cores-reveal-warm-climate-of-the-past

                Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Thursday, 8th September, 2022, 08:12 AM.

                Comment



                • "A detailed examination by John Christy, a distinguished climatologist at the University of Alabama at Huntsville and Alabama State Climatologist, provides a stark assessment of the validity (or non-validity) of the models that are used in support of imagined apocalypse. His testimony in February 2016 to the U.S. House Committee on Science, Space & Technology included remarkable charts that document just how much the models overestimate temperatures. The red line in the chart shows the average of 102 climate model runs completed by Christy and his team at the University of Alabama at Huntsville using the models on which the IPCC itself relies. Also shown on the chart are the actual, observed temperatures. The models exaggerate warming, on average, two and a half times the actual temperature (or three times over in the climate-crucial tropics)."
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                  Source(s): Christy, J.R., McNider, R.T. Satellite bulk tropospheric temperatures as a metric for climate sensitivity. Asia-Pacific J Atmos Sci 53, 511–518 (2017). https://doi.org/10.1007

                  Comment


                  • "In response to a recent question concerning what would be the ideal temperature for the planet, Dr. Michael Mann of Penn State stated that it would be the temperature before we started adding CO2 to the atmosphere. That temperature would put us squarely in the midst of the temperatures of the Little Ice Age (1250 – 1800).

                    So how did those temperatures work out for humanity? Those enjoying the benefits of the warmth that preceded the Little Ice Age little realized that there would soon be more than half a millennium of cold, misery, and death. The cold brought severe hardship primarily in northern latitudes. The combination of bitterly cold winters and cool, wet summers led to crop failure, famine and severe population decline.According to Ohio State University professor Geoffrey Parker, the deep cold in Europe “resulted in a series of droughts, floods and harvest failures that led to forced migrations, wars and revolutions. The fatal synergy between human and natural disasters eradicated perhaps one-third of the human population.”

                    Those advocating for a return to the temperatures of the Little Ice Age are ignorant of the actual effects of such cold periods on humanity."


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                    • "The Central England temperature record (HadCET) contains the longest continuously measured thermometer-based regional temperature dataset in the world, going back more than 350 years. This record began in 1659, in the depths of the Little Ice Age (1250 – 1800) which was marked by some of the coldest temperatures in nearly 8,000 years. The period of the late 17th century and early 18th century was a horrifically cold period known as the Maunder Minimum. Thankfully, the current warming trend we are in began in the year 1695. The next 40 years had more than twice the rate of warming as we experienced in the 20th century. The first half of this 300-plus year warming had about the same amount of temperature rise as the latter half and was entirely naturally driven. The natural forces driving temperature changes for the first 200 years of this temperature history did not cease functioning in the 20th century."


                      Temp: Parker DE, Legg TP, Folland CK (1992) A new daily Central England Temperature Series, 1772 – 1991. Int. J. Clim., Vol 12, pp 317–342, https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs

                      CO2: Boden TA, Marland G, Andres RJ (2016) Global CO2 emissions from Fossil-Fuel Burning Cement Manufacture and Gas Flaring 1751 – 2013. CDIAC, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, U.S. Dept of Energy, Oak Ridge, TN, USA, DOI 10.3334/CDIAC/00001_V2010

                      Source(s): Temp: Parker DE, Legg TP, Folland CK (1992) A new daily Central England Temperature Series, 1772 – 1991. Int. J. Clim., Vol 12, pp 317–342
                      Source(s): , Boden TA, Marland G, Andres RJ (2016) Global CO2 emissions from Fossil-Fuel Burning Cement Manufacture and Gas Flaring 1751 - 2013. CDIAC, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, U.S. Dept of Energy, Oak Ridge, TN, USA, DOI 10.3334/CDIAC/00001_V2010

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                      • "Melting glaciers and rising sea levels are the direct result of warming. The evidence shows that the global warming causing the rise in sea levels and the retreat of the glaciers began long before any significant man-made CO2 increases could have influenced either. Both are directly the result of the natural warming that began in the late 17th-century. Glaciers could not begin to retreat and seas to rise until the atmosphere had warmed sufficiently to allow summer ice loss to exceed winter accumulations. That glacial “tipping point” occurred around 1800, with full-on retreat by 1850. Thus began more than 150 years of worldwide glacial retreat and sea-level rise that continues at about the same rate today as 150 years ago." The average annual increase in sea level is <1.5mm per year. That is less than 6 inches rise per 100 years."

                        Source(s): Jevrejeva et al (2008) Recent global sea level acceleration started over 200 years ago? Geophys. Res. Lett., 35, L08715, doi:10.1029/2008GL033611
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                        • Hi Sid:

                          Thanks ....... I will try to work my way through all this and learn about Earth's historical, and present, warming/cooling cycles.

                          Bob A

                          Comment


                          • Negative Anthropogenic Climate Change (ANCC)

                            Weather Extremes: Drought

                            Americas - Eastern USA


                            "N.Y. to Maine Hit by Rare Drought Killing Crops, Sparking Fires

                            US Northeast farmers are warning of a ‘desperate time’."


                            https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...m_campaign=bop

                            ~ Bob A (T-S/P)

                            Comment


                            • Another great speech from Bernie Sanders

                              ​​​​​​https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzs5...esBreakingNews

                              Comment


                              • Negative Climate Change

                                Trying to cope.....

                                Americas - State of California, USA


                                "Wildfires Add New Threat Escalating California Power Crisis
                                • SoCal Edison warns of power cuts to mitigate fire risk
                                • Smoke-filled skies reducing state’s solar power generation"

                                https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...est-power-grid

                                ~ Bob A (T-S/P)

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