Collapse of Civilization

[Bob Armstrong]

My answer is somewhat more nuanced than Dilip's explanation.

I said the NDP was social democratic - it dropped "socialism" in the process of forming the "new party". I said NDP would never morph into a Democratic Marxist Party of Canada.

But the Provinces, and municipalities, have in Canada's past, elected "socialist parties".

In the future, I predict that Canadians will jump from Democratic Capitalism, directly to Democratic Marxism (They will skip the normal preparatory steps of first social democracy, and then democratic socialism). They will decide strong medicine is required, and no use taking baby steps.

Bob A

[Pargat Perrer]

As originally stated, this large swath of Canadians being fed is no thanks to the Federal government. You stated that the private sector would never undertake programs like SNAP, but indeed, that is what was achieved in Canada, where our genocidal government could not be relied upon to help. Communism/socialism ruins everything, and historically it always has. You pointed out the SNAP program in the US, which is a disaster. They do not attempt to limit what the food stamps can purchase, and yes, it includes potato chips, sugared drinks, etc. Also, fraud has been rife in this program, as pointed out earlier.

And again, I must correct Sid's deliberate obfuscation ... what he calls the "private sector" is actually charitable and not-for-profit entities, which would NOT be the basis of a Libertarian economic system.

So the struggle here is not left versus right but good versus evil. What we have seen in the last century is a partnership between corporations and Governments and unelected Non-Governmental Organizations.
The result is a massively corrupted authoritarian medical-political complex with undo influence wielded through NGOs. Historically I have never heard of a government that does a good job in much of anything other than murdering its own citizens abusing their trust, and finding ingenious ways to siphon off money for themselves.

Ah yes, good versus evil, excellent.

Perhaps we need a poll on which is more good and less evil: for-profit corporations vs democratically-elected governments. Dictatorships are excluded from the government category, and charitable and not-for-profits would be excluded from the corporation category.

[Dilip Panjwani]

In the future, I predict that Canadians will jump from Democratic Capitalism, directly to Democratic Marxism (They will skip the normal preparatory steps of first social democracy, and then democratic socialism). They will decide strong medicine is required, and no use taking baby steps.

Bob A

Bob, Marxism is not medicine, but poison (and I have explained to you why, to which you do not have any valid defense) ... you perhaps sub-consciously meant: they will go for euthanasia?

[Sid Belzberg]

And again, I must correct Sid's deliberate obfuscation ... what he calls the "private sector" is actually charitable and not-for-profit entities, which would NOT be the basis of a Libertarian economic system.



Ah yes, good versus evil, excellent.

Perhaps we need a poll on which is more good and less evil: for-profit corporations vs democratically-elected governments. Dictatorships are excluded from the government category, and charitable and not-for-profits would be excluded from the corporation category.

And again, I must correct Sid's deliberate obfuscation ... what he calls the "private sector" is actually charitable and not-for-profit entities, which would NOT be the basis of a Libertarian economic system.

deliberate obfuscation

This allegation is not only baseless but also derails any quality discussion. That comes as no surprise from a nasty troll. Let me set the record straight: at no point have I advocated for or referenced a libertarian economic system. Your attempt to skew the discussion towards my support of this topic is perplexing, if not a deliberate misrepresentation of my argument. My focus has been on the real-world example of Canadian food banks, a topic evidently too practical for your theoretical detours.

I would appreciate it if you could stick to the facts at hand and not fabricate positions I have not taken. You have done this countless times both as Paragatt and previously as Paul Bonham. This discussion deserves better than unfounded accusations and ideological grandstanding. This conversation you and I had is about the role of governments in social welfare, in particular, feeding people.

The record in Canada is horrific. The only true effort both in Canada and the US and in "democratically elected" WEF/CCP-controlled Western governments worldwide was attacking us with an easily treatable virus, claiming it can't be treated, murdering tens of thousands of elderly from medical malpractice so that all roads lead to mass injection of a slow kill bioweapon. Of course, you immediately injected yourself with this and then cried like a baby when you can't get adequate care at Canadian hospitals that have in fact become killing fields for anyone over 65.

The best was your insistence on wearing masks that do ZERO to stop transmission and simply collect bacteria and very quickly fill up with 25000 PPM of CO2 in the space between the mask and your mouth (the level at which ppm of co2 is dangerous is 5000 PPM). When I pointed this out early on in the scamdemic you accused me of some sort of plot to discourage people not to wear masks so that they get sick.
Please take your tenth injection and tightly weave three masks over your filthy mouth. We can't fix stupid lemmings!

[Dilip Panjwani]

Bob, Marxism is not medicine, but poison (and I have explained to you why, to which you do not have any valid defense) ... you perhaps sub-consciously meant: they will go for euthanasia?

Not to be too hard on you, Bob A, your Marxist principle that individuals getting what they need should take precedence over getting what they deserve, does work very well within families, and it would go farthest outside the family in a circles within circles set-up. The important point is that it should be voluntary, and not imposed upon, not even with a democratic vote... we do not want interactions that are gestures of love and kindness to be turned into legal theft... And please do not fool yourself by hoping that the Marxist principle mentioned above can be practiced between everyone in the world, because as your friend Pargat has indicated, human nature is the overwhelming obstacle to that!

[Pargat Perrer]

This allegation is not only baseless but also derails any quality discussion. That comes as no surprise from a nasty troll. Let me set the record straight: at no point have I advocated for or referenced a libertarian economic system. Your attempt to skew the discussion towards my support of this topic is perplexing, if not a deliberate misrepresentation of my argument.

You have been agreeing with many of Dilip's statements here on Libertarianism. You even now copy his trademark "nasty troll" term ... the two of you are like little Libertarian schoolgirls holding hands and skipping down the street together.

My focus has been on the real-world example of Canadian food banks, a topic evidently too practical for your theoretical detours.

I would appreciate it if you could stick to the facts at hand and not fabricate positions I have not taken. You have done this countless times both as Paragatt and previously as Paul Bonham. This discussion deserves better than unfounded accusations and ideological grandstanding. This conversation you and I had is about the role of governments in social welfare, in particular, feeding people.

The record in Canada is horrific. The only true effort both in Canada and the US and in "democratically elected" WEF/CCP-controlled Western governments worldwide was attacking us with an easily treatable virus, claiming it can't be treated, murdering tens of thousands of elderly from medical malpractice ....

Your focus is on Canadian food banks, but you deliberately obfuscate by including charitable and not-for-profits in the realm of "private sector" ....

and now you immediately DIGRESS into pandemic policy! Hello! Focus please!

Canadian food banks! Run by charitable and not-for-profits! Not run by for-profits! Not run by the "private sector"!!!!! Total misrepresentation from you, exactly the tactics you moan against from governments and WEF!!!!! YOU ARE GUILTY OF HYPOCRISY!!!!!!

And for-profits like Walmart and other grocers give their UNSELLABLE foods to food banks, and you COMMEND them for doing this! As if they are going out of their way to help the hungry! LOL

I call BS on you and your pathetic misrepresentations and now your pathetic diversion to pandemic policy!

Your calling me Paul Bonham says all I need to know about your credibility. Obama and Biden think a lot alike, are they the same person? Probably to you, another of your conspiracy theories... LOL

The best was your insistence on wearing masks that do ZERO to stop transmission and simply collect bacteria and very quickly fill up with 25000 PPM of CO2 in the space between the mask and your mouth (the level at which ppm of co2 is dangerous is 5000 PPM). When I pointed this out early on in the scamdemic you accused me of some sort of plot to discourage people not to wear masks so that they get sick.
Please take your tenth injection and tightly weave three masks over your filthy mouth. We can't fix stupid lemmings!
...

If masks did zero to stop transmission, the proof would be out there and people would stop wearing them. Your statement is BOGUS.

[Dilip Panjwani]

...little Libertarian schoolgirls holding hands and skipping down the street together.

What the hell do you have against little schoolgirls? They are better persons than you are. STOP exposing your deep-rooted misogyny, which you have done again and again, on chesstalk.

[Sid Belzberg]

If masks did zero to stop transmission, the proof would be out there, and people would stop wearing them.

Sigh, who needs Google? Paragat seems to think he knows fucking everything. Time to take your meds, Paul. Oh and don't forget to take your 9th booster and
keep wearing those masks tight around your face and nose 24/7.

Hot Off the Press: Masks Don't Work

A Cochrane Database Systematic Review


Dr. Byram W. Bridle



Here is one of the main take-home messages from the paper...
"Wearing masks [medical/surgical] in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of laboratory‐confirmed influenza/SARS‐CoV‐2 compared to not wearing masks"

Even in the context of N95/P2 respirators, this is what the authors concluded…
There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection.

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...6207.pub6/full




https://drtrozzi.org/2021/04/03/masks-cause-harm/


We hope you find the above very short video by Chris Schaefer enlightening. He clearly demonstrates how the current mask ill-practice is hazardous to the mindfulness and health of the people. Why then are such poor, dangerous, and ineffective practices being mandated by world governments and corporate bodies?

Your calling me Paul Bonham says all I need to know about your credibility. Obama and Biden think a lot alike, are they the same person? Probably to you, another of your conspiracy theories... LOL

Here is Paul as a newly registered chess.com member shilling as "Parget Perrer" for the sole purpose of calling attention to his (Paul Bonham's mention on Chessbase) of variants that included his stupid option chess variant that had just been published on Chessbase at the time.
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/che...n-chessbasecom



https://en.chessbase.com/post/option...by-paul-bonham
By the way, that Paul emailed me about raising money for one of his variants. You see, for Paul, it's ok to have a business that turns a profit as long as he is somehow the beneficiary of it. For all other business owners, it's a cardinal sin!

[Dilip Panjwani]

Your focus is on Canadian food banks, but you deliberately obfuscate by including charitable and not-for-profits in the realm of "private sector" ....


Canadian food banks! Run by charitable and not-for-profits!

And who provides the bulk of funds (donations) for the day to day expenses of these charitable and not-for-profits? The private sector/generous private individuals, of course! And the folks 'owning' these charitables/not-for-profits (for very little, if any, investment of their own money) could very well be drawing handsome salaries instead of profits...

[Sid Belzberg]

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[Sid Belzberg]

And who provides the bulk of funds (donations) for the day to day expenses of these charitable and not-for-profits? The private sector/generous private individuals, of course! And the folks 'owning' these charitables/not-for-profits (for very little, if any, investment of their own money) could very well be drawing handsome salaries instead of profits...

Exactly right Dilip

[Bob Armstrong]

Collapse of Civilization
(Started: 23/10/30)

Weekly Overview

Notes:

1. The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.
2. The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic.

A. Statistics

Week # 6 (23/12/4 – 10 [7 days])

(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)

A. Weekly Stats:
.....................................................2023 Average..........................................................2023 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day..........Last Week's.....Prior Week's......Responses/Day
Views/Day........Views/Day.............(6 wks.)............Responses/Day....Resp./Day.......(6 wks.).

…55........................55.......................45.........................4........................4........................4

B. Analysis of Last Week's Stats

There is a slight uptick in interest in this now active thread. Last week's stats are running a bit ahead of those of the prior week, and the 2023 year to date.

It seems that this new non-chess topic has hit an interest point (it is a bit beyond the no. of views per day of our 2 last quite active threads, Human Self-Government, and, Negative Climate Change)....good on the initiator, Bob Gillanders (I started the thread for him).

C. Is Our Civilization Now Collapsing?

Civilizations do not collapse overnight........there is a long, steady, continuous deterioration before hand. Then, all of a sudden, the tipping point has been reached, and we get metamorphosis (Like caterpillar to butterfly, only in reverse!). Either Dystopia, or a new empire rising like the Sphinx from the ashes, sometimes worse than the one it replaces.

Do we care who is going to be in control, as humans battle to survive in an environment more and more hostile to their continued existence (Negative Climate Change; Possible Nuclear War; Pandemics; etc.)? The very collapse of our civilization is on the horizon!

D. Indicia of a Collapsing Civilization

"Comment" below on what the current evidence is that our world's civilization is now collapsing......we'll add some of your ideas here! If we miss it, remind us:

1. Increasing dependence on private, volunteer Food Banks.

2. Increasing "Negative Health" factors, such as obesity (Despite amazing advances in medicine and medical technology).

3. An agenda by unknown forces to impose on the World a "New World Order/Great Reset", a world government that, on the evidence to date, will be authoritarian, and likely “totalitarian”. Even if this movement's intentions are “benevolent”, they are totally misguided in understanding the fundamentals of human nature.

4.Increasing inability to cope with increasing environmental changes.



Additional Footnotes:

1. The goal of this thread is not to woodshed an opposing view into submission. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide.

2. I personally, as the thread originator (After an initiative by Bob Gillanders), am trying to post a new response at least twice per week, but admit my busy schedule means I am sometimes falling short on this. So it is necessary,as is happening, that a number of other CT'ers are posting responses here somewhat regularly.

Bob A

[Pargat Perrer]

.... mostly bogus anti-mask BS ....

Bogus because no credible authority believes it and all over the world, masks are still widely encouraged during flu season .....

I notice some creative wording in the paper you provided a link to. It said wearing a mask makes little difference "in the outcome of" respiratory diseases like covid, flu etc....

This wording "in the outcome of" is repeated throughout the paper.

What it means is, once the person CONTRACTED the disease, the wearing or not wearing the mask made no difference in the outcome.

Very crafty wording!!!!! It basically ignores the fact that the masks prevent the CONTRACTING of the disease in the first place! The paper says absolutely NOTHING about that. Yes, I believe that wording was created by a Dilip's favorite, a LAWYER.

Just total BS! No wonder it's on some trivial web site, "The Cochrane Library", I'm not even going to guess who these people are, right wing bigots for sure, not even worthy of mention. Did you really think you could pull that over on people? You must think everyone is an idiot!

Here is Paul as a newly registered chess.com member shilling as "Parget Perrer" for the sole purpose of calling attention to his (Paul Bonham's mention on Chessbase) of variants that included his stupid option chess variant that had just been published on Chessbase at the time.
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/che...n-chessbasecom



https://en.chessbase.com/post/option...by-paul-bonham
By the way, that Paul emailed me about raising money for one of his variants. You see, for Paul, it's ok to have a business that turns a profit as long as he is somehow the beneficiary of it. For all other business owners, it's a cardinal sin!

Yes, that was me in 2014 after learning about Mr. Bonham's Option Chess variant, and I put a comment on chess.com about it. But of course, chess players have pretty much a 1-track mind in the sense that once you put years of study and research into classical chess openings and endgames, no variant will do because it defeats your time investment .... so the hope even now is that some enterprising YOUNGER chess players who are tired of endless draws and boring repetitive play will take on new challenges ... much like poker players (my preferred group of pro gamers) are willing to take on many different poker variants, not having such investment of years into one way of playing the game.

So it was me, so what is your point? Unless you can prove it was actually Paul Bonham posting that comment LOL, your post is a nothingburger. Like just about everything else you post.

Paul Bonham and I were in regular contact, we both liked chess variants and we both liked poker, and for me at least, that continues. I am no longer in contact with Mr. Bonham since the passing of his wife from muscular dystrophy complications in 2019 (I did meet her around 2014 / 2015 and what a wonderful human being she was, may she RIP).

I have no idea what you mean about Mr. Bonham's thinking on business. But I know he was extremely intelligent and informed, and I very much doubt your character assassination. Additionally, i still think Option Chess marks a creative revolution in chess when it comes to tackling the domination of computer engines. Perhaps now that this has been revisited, I will look myself at creating some kind of Option Chess engine which would help to answer many of the fascinating possibilities of this variant.... I do find myself with the time now that I could do that. Thanks for reminding me about that. Mr. Bonham was probably working on such an engine when his wife passed. I know he was very devoted to her and I can only guess that her passing was devasting to him.

[Pargat Perrer]

And who provides the bulk of funds (donations) for the day to day expenses of these charitable and not-for-profits? The private sector/generous private individuals, of course! And the folks 'owning' these charitables/not-for-profits (for very little, if any, investment of their own money) could very well be drawing handsome salaries instead of profits...

It doesn't matter who donates or doesn't donate ... the real story is that no one will launch a FOR PROFIT company to reduce hunger in North America. Why? Because it can't make a profit. Therefore not worth pursuing FOR LIBERTARIANS.

Any salaries being drawn by owners of a charitable organization would be a matter of public record, so your point is ridiculous unless you can back it up with the actual records.

But of course, I am addressing Dilip Panjwani, the man known for posting garbage with no supporting documentation.

And LOL your post about my mention of schoolgirls .... your baseless accusation of misogyny could be libel if this site actually had decent viewership that would affect my standing. At any rate, it is pathetic low-life bottom-feeding to which you are accustomed.

[Dilip Panjwani]

Exactly right Dilip

Sid,
Did you see Pargat/Paul's demeaning of the Cochrane Library, one of the most respected sources of information in Medicine? That just illustrates the foolish ignorance he spews in his posts :-)