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  • #16
    The original inhabitants had no border concept......land was the gift of the Great Spirit to provide food for them to hunt.

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    It is true that encroachment on the "hunting territory" of another tribe caused conflict.....but this was a fight over food, not land.

    Certain consequences follow from this "life view".

    Bob A

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
      The original inhabitants of North America did not secure their borders. So yes, they let criminal invaders into their lands and had no way to evict them. I thought learning from history was one of the reasons to study it. So that we don't make the mistakes that the people before us made.

      Securing borders is one of the primary tasks of national governments. Otherwise, Russia invades Ukraine. Or, as speculated on this site by others, US invades Canada. If borders are unimportant, why care about such things?
      True, the original inhabitants of North America probably didn't even think of the concept of "borders" because thee was so much land, so few people.

      What seems to happen is that as population grows, the number of borders grow with it. The world today probably has more countries than ever before, and still many areas want to separate even further.

      I think we can say population growth leads to increasing fragmentation (borders) leads to increasing conflict (wars).

      I don't think the lesson from history is that the original natives of North America should have secured borders (that they didn't have). Rather i think it is that we should now at this point in time LIMIT population growth in order to limit fragmentation in order to limit conflict. We have to deal with the limits of planet Earth.

      Musk wants us to go to Mars. RIght now there are no borders on Mars. How long will it be before there are borders on Mars?



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      • #18
        I cannot think of a piece of land on Earth which has not been claimed by at least one country. This includes places that have no people. The border people have won the battle of ideas in practice, for good or bad. Land has been claimed and it must be defended from criminal invaders. You claim it and defend it or you will inevitably lose it to someone else who wants it.

        Population in all places except Africa are already stable/declining. We don't need to limit population growth through force.

        When two or more countries make it to Mars and they have colonies there, there will probably be borders, especially with limited resources.
        "Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
          I cannot think of a piece of land on Earth which has not been claimed by at least one country. This includes places that have no people. The border people have won the battle of ideas in practice, for good or bad. Land has been claimed and it must be defended from criminal invaders. You claim it and defend it or you will inevitably lose it to someone else who wants it.

          Population in all places except Africa are already stable/declining. We don't need to limit population growth through force.

          When two or more countries make it to Mars and they have colonies there, there will probably be borders, especially with limited resources.
          I think the entire continent of Antarctica is not claimed by any country

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          • #20
            I believe parts of Antarctica have been claimed by various countries, though eyeballing the map on the site below it appears that there are unclaimed parts. Perhaps there are also some tiny islands in the middle of nowhere that are unclaimed. I suspect that if there were easy to extract resources / sudden strategic value these places would not be unclaimed for long.

            I think of Antarctica like Mars. Inhospitable.

            Territorial claims in Antarctica - Wikipedia
            Last edited by Tom O'Donnell; Saturday, 5th April, 2025, 03:38 PM.
            "Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.

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            • #21
              Antarctica

              Does it hold secrets (Beyond who may claim to own it)?

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upxe03w75Qo

              Bob A

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
                I cannot think of a piece of land on Earth which has not been claimed by at least one country. This includes places that have no people.
                Antarctica is covered by an international treaty. No country is allowed to claim even a part of Antarctica for themself. Of course treaties can be violated.


                Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
                IThe border people have won the battle of ideas in practice, for good or bad. Land has been claimed and it must be defended from criminal invaders. You claim it and defend it or you will inevitably lose it to someone else who wants it. ...
                This is the philosophy that leads to exactly what I said, increasing population leads to increasing borders. Claim it and defend it ... leads to conflict and wars, both civil and international.



                Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
                I
                We don't need to limit population growth through force.
                ...
                I agree with this, even though in my last post I said we should now at this point in time limit population growth. Actually, the window has closed. Instead, population growth is henceforth going to be limited by TOTAL .... GLOBAL .... ECONOMIC .... COLLAPSE.

                Anyone with children must now prepare for their children's survival. It That is, if you love your children, in which case prepare to sacrifice yourselves as parents for your children.

                It may happen in slow motion ... but it is underway now.

                Gold at record highs.
                Global trade disintegrating.
                China surpassing USA as top world economy, economic war in progress.
                USA to annex countries by force, including Canada no matter how many times you say "elbows up".

                LOL elbows up .... AK-47s firing .....

                end of civilization as we have known it.
                Last edited by Pargat Perrer; Yesterday, 03:43 AM.

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                • #23
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                  The World Population projections now state that quite soon, due to many factors, the World Population for the first time will start to DECREASE!

                  Bob A

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