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The original inhabitants of North America did not secure their borders. So yes, they let criminal invaders into their lands and had no way to evict them. I thought learning from history was one of the reasons to study it. So that we don't make the mistakes that the people before us made.
Securing borders is one of the primary tasks of national governments. Otherwise, Russia invades Ukraine. Or, as speculated on this site by others, US invades Canada. If borders are unimportant, why care about such things?
True, the original inhabitants of North America probably didn't even think of the concept of "borders" because thee was so much land, so few people.
What seems to happen is that as population grows, the number of borders grow with it. The world today probably has more countries than ever before, and still many areas want to separate even further.
I think we can say population growth leads to increasing fragmentation (borders) leads to increasing conflict (wars).
I don't think the lesson from history is that the original natives of North America should have secured borders (that they didn't have). Rather i think it is that we should now at this point in time LIMIT population growth in order to limit fragmentation in order to limit conflict. We have to deal with the limits of planet Earth.
Musk wants us to go to Mars. RIght now there are no borders on Mars. How long will it be before there are borders on Mars?
I cannot think of a piece of land on Earth which has not been claimed by at least one country. This includes places that have no people. The border people have won the battle of ideas in practice, for good or bad. Land has been claimed and it must be defended from criminal invaders. You claim it and defend it or you will inevitably lose it to someone else who wants it.
Population in all places except Africa are already stable/declining. We don't need to limit population growth through force.
When two or more countries make it to Mars and they have colonies there, there will probably be borders, especially with limited resources.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
I cannot think of a piece of land on Earth which has not been claimed by at least one country. This includes places that have no people. The border people have won the battle of ideas in practice, for good or bad. Land has been claimed and it must be defended from criminal invaders. You claim it and defend it or you will inevitably lose it to someone else who wants it.
Population in all places except Africa are already stable/declining. We don't need to limit population growth through force.
When two or more countries make it to Mars and they have colonies there, there will probably be borders, especially with limited resources.
I think the entire continent of Antarctica is not claimed by any country
I believe parts of Antarctica have been claimed by various countries, though eyeballing the map on the site below it appears that there are unclaimed parts. Perhaps there are also some tiny islands in the middle of nowhere that are unclaimed. I suspect that if there were easy to extract resources / sudden strategic value these places would not be unclaimed for long.
I cannot think of a piece of land on Earth which has not been claimed by at least one country. This includes places that have no people.
Antarctica is covered by an international treaty. No country is allowed to claim even a part of Antarctica for themself. Of course treaties can be violated.
IThe border people have won the battle of ideas in practice, for good or bad. Land has been claimed and it must be defended from criminal invaders. You claim it and defend it or you will inevitably lose it to someone else who wants it. ...
This is the philosophy that leads to exactly what I said, increasing population leads to increasing borders. Claim it and defend it ... leads to conflict and wars, both civil and international.
I
We don't need to limit population growth through force.
...
I agree with this, even though in my last post I said we should now at this point in time limit population growth. Actually, the window has closed. Instead, population growth is henceforth going to be limited by TOTAL .... GLOBAL .... ECONOMIC .... COLLAPSE.
Anyone with children must now prepare for their children's survival. It That is, if you love your children, in which case prepare to sacrifice yourselves as parents for your children.
It may happen in slow motion ... but it is underway now.
Gold at record highs.
Global trade disintegrating.
China surpassing USA as top world economy, economic war in progress.
USA to annex countries by force, including Canada no matter how many times you say "elbows up".
LOL elbows up .... AK-47s firing .....
end of civilization as we have known it.
Last edited by Pargat Perrer; Monday, 7th April, 2025, 03:43 AM.
As many of you might recall, I have long said that for major democratic developed nations, it is probably best to remain politically Center or Center-Left.
Canada did the right thing and threw away the false promises of Libertarianism / Conservatism and stayed Center-Left for the next few years.
The other PP who leads the woeful Conservatives, did he actually lose his seat? If yes, he should resign as did Singh of the Old Democrats. (How long can they be New Democrats? How long can they even remain a party?)
Too bad Dollup Panhandler, your miracle man is not going to take over. Thank goodness.
In the face of crisis, Canadians flocked to the center. Like a herd of elephants who, in response to the unexpected such as an earthquake, form a circle inside of which are their babies.
The Americans did something very different and disturbing, and as a result are in dire straits.
The collapse of the New Democrats is also a trend worth commenting on. Could it be that in Canada, we will reject polarization altogether?
Capitalism with a Human Face - Social Democracy - New Democratic Party of Canada
The NDP is the eventual path out of Capitalism........capitalism must evolve in Canada to an NDP majority government in future! They will rise like the Phoenix in the next election (Likely not that far off, since the Libs and Cons will agree on nothing).
Eventually the NDP & the Bloc & the Green will decide to end the pain of the struggling Carney minority government, pass the non-confidence motion, and all will go for the golden ring again.
After the NDP fails to satisfy, somewhere forward in Canada's future, the people will finally look at, and appreciate the benefits of Democratic Socialism (Or by then, perhaps the benefits of Democratic Marxism - they will by then have seen the benefits when the Democratic Marxist Party of Ontario formed the provincial government, & restructured the whole province municipally).
Capitalism with a Human Face - Social Democracy - New Democratic Party of Canada
... the people will finally look at, and appreciate the benefits of Democratic Socialism (Or by then, perhaps the benefits of Democratic Marxism - they will by then have seen the benefits when the Democratic Marxist Party...).
Bob A (Democratic Marxist)
What benefits, Bob, are you talking about...you have never honestly answered all the questions about the disastrous nature of Marxism...
Instead of making sure that the dirty rich cannot bribe the politicians to build a system and put in a myriad regulations which prevent the hard-working commoners to start businesses on their own, Marxism just lets the dirty rich steal from the rest and then itself steals what it can from hard and smart-working entrepreneurs to distribute the stolen stuff to those who prefer to relax rather than do hard and smart work.... a very destructive and disastrous system indeed...
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Friday, 2nd May, 2025, 07:59 PM.
Sloganneering that is repetitive gets quite tiring.
I'll no longer try to explain things to you......pretty committed to Libertarian ideology.
If others here are interested, I will continue to try to explain, what Dilip has NEVER gotten, is that "Communism" is a socialism, but is a bastardization of Marx, not Marxism (And this is the old dog he keeps coming up with so as to beat it with a stick, the same old, tiring one).
Democratic Marxism has never been tried before, as elaborated here, for the benefit, hopefully, of CT'ers. DM has only said that the closest thing to a DM government was that of President Salvador Allende in 1970-73. But it was actually a Unity Government of Democratic Socialism, and the traditional USSR-type Communist Party of Chile.
So please consider (Don't listen Dilip) the series of Discussion Papers I have posted on the prior CT Democratic Marxism thread, and then levy criticism on the policies proposed & we'll have an intelligent debate (Not a mouthing of platitudes, as has regularly happened here).
Bob A (Trying to explain my Democratic Marxism; I've totally failed with Dilip; hope others are clearer on the NEW PARTY proposed policies)
Bob, have the guts to answer the points raised, instead of shutting your eyes and brain to obvious truth.
You do not seem to understand that DM does not encourage the growth of society's wealth, as it punishes entrepreneurs; all it does is redistribute shrinking wealth. It also makes the process of generating wealth managed by government employees, and history and common sense have shown that businesses fail to deliver when run by the government.
Sloganneering that is repetitive gets quite tiring.
I'll no longer try to explain things to you......pretty committed to Libertarian ideology.
Good plan. Ignore the trolls.
For the record, I think the world needs to come together somehow, in a loose global framework, allowing for diverse political and economic systems, encouraging democracy and the elimination of human exploitation and environmental collapse. That system does not currently exist, but hopefully will evolve over time.
That is my hope, it maybe is a pipe dream.
Given the choice between Democratic Socialism and Libertarianism, I choose DM.
For the record, I think the world needs to come together somehow, in a loose global framework, allowing for diverse political and economic systems, encouraging democracy and the elimination of human exploitation and environmental collapse. That system does not currently exist, but hopefully will evolve over time.
That is my hope, it maybe is a pipe dream.
Given the choice between Democratic Socialism and Libertarianism, I choose DM.
Hopefully we can evolve.
FYI, Bob G, pointing out the problems with DM is not trolling. If Bob A wants to tell everyone that DM is beneficial, he should be able to answer the points raised which show that it would be disastrous...
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