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I I would suggest that the Governors will vote sooner rather then later anyway, and if the majority is for Kirsan - let it be so, and if it is for Gary - that will put Executives in not a very comfortable position. Most likely outcome: Canada will vote for Gary but will not endorse him.
Hi Sasha:
I can only say that there has been very little indication generally from the governors how they would vote, to my knowledge, if they determine that the vote is under their authority, and they have not passed by-laws that give the vote exclusively to the Executive.
So, I have no idea who the governors might vote for, if they decide they have the vote. But there will be campaigning and debate within the Governors' Discussion Board before any vote, as governors on one side, try to win over the uncommitted.
At the moment, the current CFC Handbook is IN FORCE! It determines who has authority over the FIDE election vote until the "Continuance" is officially confirmed. It may be, that if the Governors are able to quickly establish that THEY have authority over the vote NOW, then they will be able to EXERCISE THEIR AUTHORITY before the CFC Handbook expires as the rules of the CFC.
I assume that you, as President, and chair of the Assembly of Governors, will do all in your power to assist the Governors in reaching a conclusion on whether they or the executive have the right over the vote NOW and UNTIL THE CHANGE!
Bob A
I will do what is right but as they say your poor planning is not my emergency. The FIDE vote is not a suddenly occurring situation which could not have been raised at the last meeting or the next meeting.
The irony of it is that your maneuvering actually hurt the candidate you favour because he needed an endorsement from us forthwith and that cannot possibly happen now with Hal and I dealing with this diversion.
In order to get a mail vote you need the authorization of the executive according to my quick reading of the rules. If you are attempting a backdoor overthrow of the present rules I don't expect them to be too sympathetic. The president then gets to set the deadline. Any reasonable deadline will result in a delay which should see the new not for profit act compliant regulations in force before the vote is finished. At the very least you would have to redo the vote. If you managed to get this through more quickly then I suspect that it would not be compliant with the new NFP act and you could delay our application. Again we spent many months reaching a compromise on our new minimal compliant articles and bylaws and you seem to be trying to move the goal posts on the sly. If you had tried to do this during the NFP process the governor approval would have failed. You have signed your name several times as a lame duck governor so what is the point of starting a constitutional squabble at this point?
I am certainly willing to discuss the issue either here or on the governors forum but if you seem to me to be trying to circumvent the rules and consensus achieved with the paint not yet dry on the new constitution. Don't expect me to be an ally in your attempt to do this. If need be I would certainly have the power to confound and delay such an attempt but if it comes to that then there is no real use in me being president. I will put all that energy into finding more IT clients and chess students and allow myself to admit to those who told me that it was not possible to change the CFC from within that they were right.
Originally posted by Laurentiu GrigorescuView Post
Thanks for clarifications Mr. Zeromskis. I had doubts it is a real person, as I have never seen an avalanche of blue text postings here before.
"You must serve in order to lead" is a principle Kasparov does not know. He never served. Hugging kids in Jamaica for the media does not prove anything. It is shallow. The more he acts, the more he distance himself from the "iconic" chess player that destroyed Kortchynoi in the 1982 Olympics with black pieces. He can't make a good FIDE president.
And you and the many others who have expressed similar views to me have not voted in the poll which I have never taken too seriously. It is not really a snapshot of popular opinion.
And you and the many others who have expressed similar views to me have not voted in the poll which I have never taken too seriously. It is not really a snapshot of popular opinion.
I can't believe it: somebody will go as far as to put his Presidency on the table just to destroy Gary's chance to show to all World what he is capable of doing!
Instead Canada will vote together with all third World countries! OMG! Makes me vomiting! And if Gary will still win - shame on us, CFC, what a joke!
If you managed to get this through more quickly then I suspect that it would not be compliant with the new NFP act and you could delay our application. Again we spent many months reaching a compromise on our new minimal compliant articles and bylaws and you seem to be trying to move the goal posts on the sly.
Hi Vlad:
You have done an excellent job this past year shepherding the governors along on the "Continuance" File.
I would not do anything that would jeopardize all the hard work that has gone into getting a before-deadline Continuance Certificate.
You express fear that my pursuing my cause of having the governors determine the interpretation of the CFC Handbook re the FIDE Presidential vote, may "delay our application".
I do not want that to happen because of the issue I have raised. I will re-raise it at a later non-critical time.
I am therefore currently abandoning my cause of having the Governors determine the proper interpretation of the CFC Handbook re whom the FIDE Presidential Vote belongs to. I leave it to the Executive to deal with this matter however.
And you and the many others who have expressed similar views to me have not voted in the poll which I have never taken too seriously. It is not really a snapshot of popular opinion.
This is grossly unfair: YOU were one starting the poll. And if Kirsan would have been ahead you'd have an additional ammunition to justify CFC voting for Kirsan. But the opposite has happened: so you are saying that you have never taken this poll seriously! Your own poll! Hahaha!!! Have to do better than this, please!
I'm going out of town for a few days and will not be able to closely follow the new developments here.
All I can say is that without being a Governor or Executive I have little impact if any on the CFC's vote.
Besides, if endorsement is not on the table, the vote is almost irrelevant.
Actually if we limit the voting to CFC members it seems to me that None of the Above is winning. You will probably be informed shortly after we decide.
I've been a CFC life member for over 40 years and I don't recall every being asked whom I would like for FIDE President. What does it matter to me? How does it affect me? FIDE mean to us: rules, ratings, time controls, titles, individuals going to the World and Continental Championships, olympiad team, youth championships. In the past I recall hearing stories of FIDE politics from our FIDE representative and it was quite complex. Really, only our FIDE rep attends FIDE meetings (at their own expense) and so they know the consequences of their vote. I have complete confidence in delegating voting at FIDE meetings to our FIDE representative, whomever he may be. I'm against the micro management suggestion of having Governors vote on FIDE matters. If you want to change the process/constitution do so at the annual CFC meeting and have the future Governors direct our new FIDE representative at the next cycle. There's so much work needed to be done in Canada that should be the focus of the limited time Governors give to national chess.
Last edited by Erik Malmsten; Thursday, 8th May, 2014, 07:10 PM.
Reason: added rules, ratings
I've been a CFC life member for over 40 years and I don't recall every being asked whom I would like for FIDE President. What does it matter to me? How does it affect me? FIDE mean to us: rules, ratings, time controls, titles, individuals going to the World and Continental Championships, olympiad team, youth championships. In the past I recall hearing stories of FIDE politics from our FIDE representative and it was quite complex. Really, only our FIDE rep attends FIDE meetings (at their own expense) and so they know the consequences of their vote. I have complete confidence in delegating voting at FIDE meetings to our FIDE representative, whomever he may be. I'm against the micro management suggestion of having Governors vote on FIDE matters. If you want to change the process/constitution do so at the annual CFC meeting and have the future Governors direct our new FIDE representative at the next cycle. There's so much work needed to be done in Canada that should be the focus of the limited time Governors give to national chess.
Thank you for your post, Erik! I agree with you that for some, perhaps even majority, of CFC members, it is irrelevant who is a FIDE President. Its a different story for players attending international competitions, both personal and team, including youth tournaments. Also the chess organizers approaching sponsors could feel the difference - the sponsors, both Government and corporate, would feel way more comfortable if CFC is a member of FIDE, headed by World's famous GM media friendly Gary Kasparov, whose name is widely known even to people never played a game, then whoever else. So Governors not recognizing the difference could answer something like "either is fine with me", however those who have an opinion and do care about CFC vote could have a chance to voice their opinion AND participate in the process. So Governors who have "limited time" would just select "either is fine with me" - that should not take a lot of their time. But why not to give an opportunity of participating to other Governors?
Your statement concerns me. I know we will have new CFC laws imminently (but no one knows how long it will take the government to issue the certificate of continuance, and until then, the CFC is governed by the currently in force CFC Handbook). But are you implying that the governance situation under the new laws re CFC division of governance power is going to be somehow different under the continuance by-laws?
Yes it will be different because the laws have been changed. If the laws hadn't changed we wouldn't have had to do anything.
The Governors voted that the continuance should maintain to all extent possible the current CFC division of governance power, despite the re-labelling of the parties under the new legislation. If this has not happened then I am concerned.
Be concerned. The laws changed. The compromise which you seem intent on upsetting was to keep as many things the same as possible.
As far as I am concerned at the moment, assuming the continuance identically continues current CFC Governance, the division of powers problem simply continues under the continuance, and remains to be clarified by vote of the governors, once the issues are clear, and the remedial amendments necessary.
Is this not correct?
Bob A
It is not correct. Much of our old governance was based on the old act. The new act reduces the need for explicitly defining everything in the constitution, articles and bylaws and proscribes certain practices like past presidents but not life members. I am pretty sure that this was explained many time over several meetings and several online discussions. Certainly many links were given to the new laws and the government websites and publications. You can't go back to what can no longer exist under the new law. If you have a complaint talk to the government.
Re: CFC Governance Problem to Continue under "Continuence"
The very fact that there is no explicit regulations in the handbook, concerning responsibility in FIDE Presidential Elections clearly leaves the onus on the FIDE Representative who has to vote on any number of issues during their term, both at the World level and at the Americas level.
As was the case in 2010, Hal approached us (the rest of the Executive) to seek advice and discuss his impressions of what the various candidates could mean for chess in Canada. In my mind at the end of the day, the FIDE Representative at the time of the election will cast the vote, without any binding requirement.
Obviously there would be considerable embarrassment should we choose to endorse either candidate at this time and not eventually vote for them (I'm not even sure if the votes are private or not).
This is grossly unfair: YOU were one starting the poll. And if Kirsan would have been ahead you'd have an additional ammunition to justify CFC voting for Kirsan.
Life is grossly unfair. I wanted to see what people thought and generate some discussion. I never implied that this poll had anything to do with Canada's vote.
But the opposite has happened: so you are saying that you have never taken this poll seriously! Your own poll! Hahaha!!!
What did you think I would do with the poll?
Garry should fire everyone who is trying to influence the Canadian vote except perhaps Ruth Haring the USCF president who at least sticks to the facts and provides some logical arguments for her position.
I can't believe it: somebody will go as far as to put his Presidency on the table just to destroy Gary's chance to show to all World what he is capable of doing!
Preventing a back door restructuring of the CFC is destroying Gary somehow now? Your claim that I am trying to destroy Gary's chance to show the world what he is capable of doing is simply not true. If that were the case then I would aim for a much larger audience and my communications would have been somewhat different. I want the person who is best for chess in Canada and in the world to win. I have to evaluate the character assets and flaws of the candidates and project out to the future what those might mean for the chess world. I am only one of seven who are deciding this.
Miyamoto Musashi says, "Do nothing which is of no use." If the rules and constitution of the CFC organization can be rewritten on a whim between meetings because a few governors want to force the executive to do something, then this is not a professional or serious organization. It can only end badly. As it stands cooler heads have prevailed. I am only doing my job, which I was elected by the governors to do.
Instead Canada will vote together with all third World countries! OMG! Makes me vomiting! And if Gary will still win - shame on us, CFC, what a joke!
If Gary will win and that is what you want then what is the issue?
Well I meant on changing the governing structure but well played. The CFC has on more than one occasion made mistakes that made it the butt or jokes. If we could get away from this endless pattern of starting fires and then having to put them out maybe we could accomplish something useful in the way of promoting chess.
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