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"That seems an order of magnitude higher than what I have been told that you donated to the CFC. If accurate, I can understand your emotional state at the moment. I would be annoyed too. You haven't been involved in the CFC in something like a decade or more I am given to understand. I understood that you had sponsored one or two Olympiad teams and one Canadian closed so I was under the impression that you had sponsored on the order of $50,000 worth of CFC chess projects more than a decade ago. That level of sponsorship did not warrant the deference that you seemed and still seem to be demanding."
Like everything else you are full of sh*t. In those days we paid for plane tickets lodging meals and everything else for everyone. we also made sure the team had the top accommodation and meals on par with the best teams. We paid special cash rewards for players to win at a rate of over $2,500.00 for a win against some of the top players and $1000.00 a win for lower players.
In our first Olympiad with young non GM players except for Spraggett and Lesiege in the penultimate round we were in the top ten and it made headlines in Canada.
approx expenses
approx
2002 Olympiad 45k
2004 Olmpiad 45K
Canadian Closed 2005 10K
Canadian Closed 2006 10k
Chess Clock donation10K
total 120K direct sponsorship payment GM coaches for members of the national team and other benefits.
I don't expect deference or even thanks. I do expect honesty and ethics.
The 2002 Olympiad was a joy. The 2004 Olympiad story - we lost you as a sponsor.
The CFC fundraised about $5K and the rest was paid with CFC funds - I refused to cut the women's team and made a big investment and took a lot of heat for it as CFC President.
From the AGM after the fact:
19 Instructions to FIDE Representative
19.1 Thorvardson: The CFC needs to send a message to FIDE. The CFC lost a
major sponsor in Belzberg Technologies because Belzberg is upset with
FIDE. The CFC must say something but must be careful in its wording of
the message.
19.2 President: I will ask the FIDE representative to support the changes in the
FIDE regulations regarding players and their accompanying personnel.
Yes, I've read the Governor's Forum. So you were negotiating with Sid while getting a better IN YOUR OPINION offer from Mr. Ilyumzhinov! So the deal is that Mr. Ilyumzhinov is buying CFC's endorsement for $80,000.00 for running 4 tournaments. Regardless whether he wins or loses FIDE election. Never mind the moral, ethical and political issues. You and the other executives ignored the wishes of Canadian chess followers (in your own poll Mr. Ilyumzhinov had 1 vote and Mr. Kasparov - almost 30) and many Governors. You with the help of other executives have delivered your side of the bargain: the Ilymzhinov's endorsement. And where is Mr. Ilyumzinov's part of the bargain? Remember: WIN or LOSE! Where is at least first $20,000.00? What will happened if he will NOT deliver his part of the bargain, all or part of it? Are you and your executives will be responsible? And who will be responsible for CFC's mismanagement: No handbook, disappearing membership, terrible website, embarrassing decisions, chasing away the biggest patron in the CFC's history? You alone or all the executives?
Last edited by Sasha Starr; Sunday, 6th July, 2014, 10:39 PM.
total 120K direct sponsorship payment GM coaches for members of the national team and other benefits.
Wow, three quick points in succession to Sid in this thread.
As an interested spectator who has never been involved in chess politics but is simply trying to figure out how and more importantly why this strange decision was taken by the Executive, (and by God I've read ALL the threads :( ).. I have to say it's not looking good on the Executive. There sure seem to be a lot of things that went on among them which are being kept secret, and the official story (that Sid is a maniacal monster hence the endorsement for the other guy) is looking less and less sensible a reason to me, with every backpedal.
You have a real problem with the concept of confidentiality. This is not a cash sponsorship. It is FIDE sponsoring a series of tournaments so that young Canadian players can achieve grandmaster and international master titles. We have to deliver our part. In all likelihood this will lead to other sponsorships as well. We make significant payments every year to FIDE and we have done so for many years. In this case some of this money will come back to the benefit of our young players like Razvan Preotu though perhaps it will come late for him as he seems to be well on his way already.
Once again you show that you are not suited to the job of CFC president.
You have a real problem with the concept of confidentiality. This is not a cash sponsorship. It is FIDE sponsoring a series of tournaments so that young Canadian players can achieve grandmaster and international master titles. We have to deliver our part. In all likelihood this will lead to other sponsorships as well. We make significant payments every year to FIDE and we have done so for many years. In this case some of this money will come back to the benefit of our young players like Razvan Preotu though perhaps it will come late for him as he seems to be well on his way already.
Once again you show that you are not suited to the job of CFC president.
1.You yourself have directed me to the Governors' site.
2.You've never proposed any confidentiality issues.
3.Furthermore, why have you never made a public announcement about it?
4.This is not a cash sponsorship? Then what is it? It's value according to you is nevertheless $80,000.00 - if not - remind me, please, where is that number coming from? Your own post! And you've already delivered your part. All the rest of the World is aware of it.
5."In all likelihood"? Is that a joke? Where is an agreement? You and your executives made the most horrible announcement and keep saying all kinds of stupidity, chased away the REAL patron of Canadian Chess for something "in all likelihood"! Where are your brains? Where is your judgment?
6.On the Governors' poll SEVEN Governors voted for the endorsement of KASPAROV. If you take away three votes of the executives (one of whom could not vote anyway - he's admitted it himself earlier) guess what: there are only FIVE votes to endorse Ilyumzhinov. Against SEVEN for Kasparov! In spite of the fact that the Governors KNEW about the so called $80,000.00! And speaking about executives only: there are only three votes out of seven. So how on Earth have you fabricated the so-called endorsement?
7.You've rushed the Certificate of continuance to make sure that the Governors will become helpless "voting members" and you and the executives will be able to fabricate this horrible endorsement? Bravo! And do you really think you'll get away with it?
Last edited by Sasha Starr; Monday, 7th July, 2014, 08:56 AM.
The 2002 Olympiad was a joy. The 2004 Olympiad story - we lost you as a sponsor.
The CFC fundraised about $5K and the rest was paid with CFC funds - I refused to cut the women's team and made a big investment and took a lot of heat for it as CFC President.
From the AGM after the fact:
19 Instructions to FIDE Representative
19.1 Thorvardson: The CFC needs to send a message to FIDE. The CFC lost a
major sponsor in Belzberg Technologies because Belzberg is upset with
FIDE. The CFC must say something but must be careful in its wording of
the message.
19.2 President: I will ask the FIDE representative to support the changes in the
FIDE regulations regarding players and their accompanying personnel.
Halldor that is correct I actually sponsored the 2006 Olympiad and neglected to mention that I also sponsored the 2000 Istanbul Olympiad to the tune of 30k I edited the post with the correction.
However I did not attend the 2000 Olympiad
So I actually sponsored 3 Olympiads 2000 2002 and 2006 not 2 Olympiads. The reason I did not sponsor 2004 was that was the year Kirsan held World championship matches in Libya where Jews and Israelis were not allowed to attend. Yes, Kirsan was an A**hole in 2004 also. My most memorable Olympiad was 2002 in Slovenia although the 2006 in Torino had its magic too when Pascal beat Anand.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Monday, 7th July, 2014, 07:38 AM.
Hallidor that is correct I actually sponsored the 2006 Olympiad and neglected to mention that I also sponsored the 2000 Istanbul Olympiad to the tune of 30k
However I did not attend the 2000 Olympiad
So I actually sponsored 3 Olympiads 2002 2004 2006
And Nava has played in all three of them! I've attended two of them: in 2002 and in 2006.
[QUOTE=Sasha Starr;82835]1.You yourself have directed me to the Governors' site.
2.You've never proposed any confidentiality issues.
At the top of the governors forum it says - PRIVATE - Confidential discussion by CFC Governors. Do you have such a problem with reading comprehension that you could not notice this? We made multiple references to privacy breaches of the governors forum in your post about Hal Bond and in Sid's post about the anonymous governor. Claiming you don't know shows that either you can't read English which does not seem likely or you only read what you want to read and go off like a cannonball. If you don't think that I will bring it up in the campaign, think again.
3.Furthermore, why you've never made a public announcement about it?
We have put off making a public statement because of the civil discussion with Robert Hamilton. The statement as currently drafted has a paragraph which blasts Kasparov and his campaign. I am sure that this will be used world wide in the campaign. Some are asking me to remove that paragraph. Garland Best prepared a statement which did not include that paragraph. It is best that I not post when I am very annoyed.
4.This is not a cash sponsorship? Then what is it? It's value according to you is nevertheless $80,000.00 - if not - remind, please, where is that number coming from? Your own post! And you've already delivered your part. All the rest of the World is aware of it.
5."In all likelihood"? Is it what, a joke? Where is an agreement? You and your executives made the most horrible announcement and keep saying all kinds of stupidity, chased away the REAL patron of Canadian Chess for something "in all likelihood"!
With all due respect he hasn't done a thing for Canadian chess for twelve years. [I stand corrected eight years according to his post] He started out promising his favour IF Kasparov won which has always seemed highly unlikely. You haven't shown that you can organize a pizza party. You claim to be able to bring sponsorship but what sponsorship have you ever brought to the CFC? What have done as an organizer? Have you even thrown a pizza party? I was at one today by one of the Windsor parents who organized a training day for the kids to get them ready for CYCC. We probably raised $50,000 for chess in a couple of years in Windsor in the 1990s when we had the Windsor Chess Association and we put on various tournaments including a Canadian Open and an Ontario Open. Not one rich guy involved. Just organizing bingos and fundraisers and finding small sponsors.
Where are your brains? Where is your judgment?
6.On the Governors' poll SEVEN Governors voted for the endorsement of KASPAROV. If you'll take away three votes of the executives (one of whom could not vote anyway - he's admitted it himself earlier) guess what: there are only FIVE votes to endorse Ilyumzhinov.
The executive were governors and now are voting members. One director did not vote because he was in China in areas with no internet. Two abstained. Four voted for Kirsan so if you remove all of the executive vote you only manage a tie for Kasparov. Your logic that the executive votes don't count are flawed as your logic usually is.
Against SEVEN for Kasparov! In spite of the fact that the Governors KNEW about these $80,000.00! And speaking about executives only: there are only three votes out of seven. So how on Earth you've fabricated the so-called endorsement?
The straw poll was just that. A straw poll. Guidance to the executive.
7.You've rushed the Certificate of continuance to make sure that the Governors will become helpless "voting members" and you and the executives will be able to fabricate this horrible endorsement? Bravo! And do you really think you'll get away with it?
The rush for the certificate of continuance was so that the CFC could continue to exist. You whine about "losing" a long lost sponsor but you think that I should have risked more than $300,000 in the CFC's assets just so your boy could win the FIDE election. I don't think so. When we passed the NFP act the FIDE election wasn't even on my radar. It was in fact before Sid's first contact with me and shortly after the vote. If you are saying that I didn't conveniently delay the certificate of continuance until after the AGM so that you could try to hijack things under the old rules well I guess I can say that I am guilty of that but that would have been playing chicken with the continued existence of the CFC. I wasn't willing to do that. Waiting until the AGM probably would have required a revote as the governors who passed the original vote would not have been the same ones that were then in charge.
That you would risk the continued existence of the CFC to make sure that Garry was elected just proves that you are unfit to be CFC president. Further if you had won you wouldn't have had the political skills to get the continuance passed in the three months from the end of the AGM until the mid October deadline with the first month spent ensuring that Kasparov won the FIDE election.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Monday, 7th July, 2014, 01:21 AM.
"With all due respect he hasn't done a thing for Canadian chess for twelve years".
As always you are full of sh*t. I sponsored the Torino Olympiad in 2006 which is 8 years ago. You don't know the first thing about Sasha or Nava , and i don't care if she is not running, she has agreed to work together with Sasha. Between the two of them they have a lifetime of experience in administration, finance and accounting.
The only thing I see on your Linkedin profile besides your CFC presidency is that you were an IT/Network consultant. and that only goes back a few years.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Monday, 7th July, 2014, 01:30 AM.
"With all due respect he hasn't done a thing for Canadian chess for twelve years".
As always you are full of sh*t. I sponsored the Torino Olympiad in 2006 which is 8 years ago.
I edited my post three minutes before you posted that last one. I didn't know about 2006 because you never mentioned it before except while I was composing that post...
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Monday, 7th July, 2014, 01:44 AM.
Vlad, enough is enough. Keep the pizza party to yourself, please!
In your own straw poll here was 1 vote for Ilyumzhinov, and almost 30 for Kasparov. Then in your own Governors only "straw" poll only 33,33% of Governors INCLUDING 3 executives (one of whom was not even supposed to vote) - voted for the endorsement of Ilyumzhinov. Help me with accounting, but it looks that 66,67% of Governors DID NOT SUPPORT AN ENDORSEMENT OF Ilyumzhinov! So after losing badly all your polls you've decided to completely disregard the opinions of both the chess public here on chess talk and CFC's Governors who elected you and got executives to vote your way! And these executives have actually supported it, completely disregarding opinions and wishes of the Governors who actually have elected them! What kind of organization is it? You and all other executives knew well that Sid Belzberg is a REAL thing, Kasparov's Chess Foundation is here to stay, and yet you've opted to get a deal with the thugs! Do you at least have a written Agreement with them? Was the Canadian lawyer involved? Or it is nothing but your and Hal's belief that it indeed will happened?
You and the executives have miserably FAILED to respect the wishes of the Governors - the very people who've elected YOU!
And for all your troubles: WHERE IS THE BEEF? SHOW ME THE MONEY! You've already delivered the endorsement. When will the first $20,000.00 will appear on the CFC's bank account? One more thing. If Ilyumzhinov wins, $$$ supposedly will come from FIDE. And if not - from his own pockets? Any idea where from?
Last edited by Sasha Starr; Monday, 7th July, 2014, 08:01 AM.
You have a real problem with the concept of confidentiality. This is not a cash sponsorship. It is FIDE sponsoring a series of tournaments so that young Canadian players can achieve grandmaster and international master titles. We have to deliver our part. In all likelihood this will lead to other sponsorships as well. We make significant payments every year to FIDE and we have done so for many years. In this case some of this money will come back to the benefit of our young players like Razvan Preotu though perhaps it will come late for him as he seems to be well on his way already.
Once again you show that you are not suited to the job of CFC president.
OMG, the man behind the curtain has been exposed, and he doesn't like it!
But what's really striking is this:
Vlad wrote over and over again that that "the price" for Sid's sponsorship offer, which was alleged to be a CFC endorsement for Garry, was too steep to pay -- making it look like the CFC and Vlad were taking the high road. Yet the price for FIDE's sponsorship money was an endorsement for Kirsan, and that was fine! So there was no 'high road' involved: the CFC did prostitute itself and decided they liked the color of Kirsan's money. No WONDER Vlad wanted this kept hush hush!
It is further proof of what I am alleging in this whole business: Vlad outright lied to everyone here and even to the voting members and the Exec. He pretended to be, as he put it, 49% Kirsan and 51% Garry at the beginning of the election process. That is pure bullcrap. Vlad was never in a million years going to consider Kasparov. That's why this $80,000 sponsorship (which is actually just a promise ring from Kirsan) was kept quiet, that's why Vlad never tried to contact Robert Hamilton, that's why Sid was portrayed as an evil bully. Vlad was for Kirsan all the way.
Vlad is never 49% - 51% on ANY SUBJECT. Vlad is always 100% for one side or another, and refuses to even look at anything the other side has to offer. Just look at the climate change threads for an example.
On this issue of privacy in the governor's forum, someone wrote that that privacy was only so that they could kick around ideas without having to hear public outcry. Well, what about this $80,000 deal? That's quite an idea you voting members were kicking around... and not just kicking around, but actually agreeing to. "Shhhhhhh, don't let it get out that we bent over for Kirsan! Don't let it get out that our vote CAN be bought! The nerve of that Sid, to think our vote could be bought!"
Kudos to Sasha for bringing all this out in the open. Proof that with Sasha, you won't have the cult of personality. Everything will be transparent and the ordinary members can feel trust for the voting members and the exec.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Paul, if you are such a prominent businessman and are as successful as you say you are, how the hell do you have so much free time to post so much trash on a chess forum?
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