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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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Let's not forget that a national "junior chess organization" already exists and prospers, celebrating its 30th anniversary this year. It is the Canadian Chess 'n Math Association / l'Association Échecs et Maths, courtesy of which all of us are using ChessTalk. :)
This organisation operates outside of the CFC, uses its own rating, fast time control and no game recording. Long ago, when I was an FQE Governor, we have noticed no significant transfer of players from CMA to any form of serious (slow and recorded) chess.
For the vast majority of players, CMA chess is the only form of chess that they will see in their whole life and this is not good for the CFC.
A minor sports Federation if profitable when it works closely with its parent Federation. They are still at arms length as far as CRA is concerned, but all their activities are "rated" by the national Federation, rules of the national Federation are applied, arbiters are certified by the national Federation, players are somehow linked to the national Federation by paying some fee although most sport Federations in Canada do not grant players the status of a member.
As a U16 player this year let me state the following:
Whether or not it was "ethical" or allowed by CFC rules for Sam Song to play up is an argument I won't dive into and I'll let you decide your take on it.
The key issue for both the U16 and U18 players was transparency. As Caleb Peterson said before we weren't notified that it was possible to move up. (nothing stated on the registration page about this).
Many of us in the U16 and U18 took issue to the fact that this change went unannounced until the moment the pairings were posted about 15 minutes before round 1 started. I spoke to a few U18 and U16 players who felt their preparation was thrown off by this change. If this change was announced at least by the registration deadline, it would have been less of an issue of for all us.
However there is complete avoidance to offer any explanations whatsoever to answer Mr. Preotu's question but only digressions or unwarranted personal attacks on Mr. Preotu.
"2. Why was he preregistered in the U16 and then allowed to play in the U18 without any announcement? The U18 players found out about this after the 1st round pairings were posted."
It is also worth noting that the registration closed according to registration page "The final cut-off date for online registration with payment is July 4, 2015 at midnight." It should also be noted that the request to move up was made on July 1st. The registration change of Sam Song was shown on the webpage a day after the tournament started which was July 7. So I will add to Mr. Preotu's question, why was there no announcement of this change made by the organizers by July 4th midnight or earlier?
In my opinion there was nothing wrong with Sam Song's request of playing up, however it is totally inconceivable and unacceptable U16 and U18 players were left blindsided by this change as it went unannounced.
As a U16 player this year let me state the following:
Whether or not it was "ethical" or allowed by CFC rules for Sam Song to play up is an argument I won't dive into and I'll let you decide your take on it.
The key issue for both the U16 and U18 players was transparency. As Caleb Peterson said before we weren't notified that it was possible to move up. (nothing stated on the registration page about this).
Many of us in the U16 and U18 took issue to the fact that this change went unannounced until the moment the pairings were posted about 15 minutes before round 1 started. I spoke to a few U18 and U16 players who felt their preparation was thrown off by this change. If this change was announced at least by the registration deadline, it would have been less of an issue of for all us.
However there is complete avoidance to offer any explanations whatsoever to answer Mr. Preotu's question but only digressions or unwarranted personal attacks on Mr. Preotu.
"2. Why was he preregistered in the U16 and then allowed to play in the U18 without any announcement? The U18 players found out about this after the 1st round pairings were posted."
It is also worth noting that the registration closed according to registration page "The final cut-off date for online registration with payment is July 4, 2015 at midnight." It should also be noted that the request to move up was made on July 1st. The registration change of Sam Song was shown on the webpage a day after the tournament started which was July 7. So I will add to Mr. Preotu's question, why was there no announcement of this change made by the organizers by July 4th midnight or earlier?
In my opinion there was nothing wrong with Sam Song's request of playing up, however it is totally inconceivable and unacceptable U16 and U18 players were left blindsided by this change as it went unannounced.
How refreshing to hear from someone with some direct involvement in this situation; let me add that it is also welcome that you stated your points with clarity and in a proper manner.
I guess this matter will be brushed aside like so many CFC/CYCC/WYCC/FIDE matters - that is quite sad really but I suppose that reflects the reality of so many events these days...
How refreshing to hear from someone with some direct involvement in this situation; let me add that it is also welcome that you stated your points with clarity and in a proper manner.
I guess this matter will be brushed aside like so many CFC/CYCC/WYCC/FIDE matters - that is quite sad really but I suppose that reflects the reality of so many events these days...
So often in life people in positions of authority have difficulty in simply 'doing the right thing'. Surely it is just common sense that there should be a level playing field for all contestants in an event like the CYCC. Couldn't someone in authority at the CFC have said, "Yeah, this wasn't right and I'll put the issue (ensuring a level playing field for all) on the agm agenda"?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
So often in life people in positions of authority have difficulty in simply 'doing the right thing'. Surely it is just common sense that there should be a level playing field for all contestants in an event like the CYCC. Couldn't someone in authority at the CFC have said, "Yeah, this wasn't right and I'll put the issue (ensuring a level playing field for all) on the agm agenda"?
So often armchair critics on chesstalk have very little concept of the right thing. If you don't like how the CFC is being run then become a voting member or run for office and displace the people who are making the "wrong decisions" that you claim are being made. Even better run a tournament or volunteer to teach kids or adults to play chess. Organize a CYCC and then you can be criticised by the armchair critics regardless of what decision is made.
Playing up was on the agenda in 2012 and both I and Aris argued against allowing playing up but having lost the argument applied the decision of the then governors. You are supposed to wait five years before bringing up substantially the same matter according to the NFP act. While I have the same reservations about allowing playing up as before a very strict application of the handbook would have seen the under 16 and under 18 groups merge which would have been even more problematic. While the player in question applied on July 1st, I only became aware of the application fairly late on July 5th (Sunday) with the tournament set to begin the next day. The decision to allow it was only made on the day of the tournament hence the lack of notice. This is normal operating procedure as this was the third time I was asked to make a decision on the organization of sections of the CYCC on the day of the tournament in the time that I have been CFC president. If we applied all of the contradictory rules in the handbook then under 18 open and under 16 open would have been combined as one section with only one winner having the plane ticket funded between the two groups and under 16 girls and under 14 girls would have been combined with the same result of only one winner receiving funding in both sections. Of course there are also sections of the handbook that contradict this interpretation.
The decision made was a compromise which balanced the various outcomes and conflicting policies and rules and resolved the contradictions in the simplest way. I became involved in CFC governance because I disagreed with a decision of the executive some four or five years ago. I figured that if I didn't get involved I didn't have much standing to complain about the decisions being made by those who were involved. Here is your chance to get involved and right the wrongs being done. There is still time to run for executive positions including president. Its your move.
While I can see some merit in the complaint that U18 players preparation was adversely affected, I don't see how U16 players would have been adversely affected. Round one pairings could have varied wildly based on the arrival or non-arrival of players at the World Open. The player in question also did not know for sure what section he was playing in before July 6th as he received an email from Aris throwing the decision in my lap on July 5th.
So often armchair critics on chesstalk have very little concept of the right thing. If you don't like how the CFC is being run then become a voting member or run for office and displace the people who are making the "wrong decisions" that you claim are being made. Even better run a tournament or volunteer to teach kids or adults to play chess. Organize a CYCC and then you can be criticised by the armchair critics regardless of what decision is made.
................
Here is your chance to get involved and right the wrongs being done. There is still time to run for executive positions including president. Its your move.
I know these comments are directed at all those who enjoy being armchair critics!
BUT, they know better. It is more fun to sit back and snipe!
So often armchair critics on chesstalk have very little concept of the right thing. If you don't like how the CFC is being run then become a voting member or run for office and displace the people who are making the "wrong decisions" that you claim are being made. Even better run a tournament or volunteer to teach kids or adults to play chess. Organize a CYCC and then you can be criticised by the armchair critics regardless of what decision is made.
Playing up was on the agenda in 2012 and both I and Aris argued against allowing playing up but having lost the argument applied the decision of the then governors. You are supposed to wait five years before bringing up substantially the same matter according to the NFP act. While I have the same reservations about allowing playing up as before a very strict application of the handbook would have seen the under 16 and under 18 groups merge which would have been even more problematic. While the player in question applied on July 1st, I only became aware of the application fairly late on July 5th (Sunday) with the tournament set to begin the next day. The decision to allow it was only made on the day of the tournament hence the lack of notice. This is normal operating procedure as this was the third time I was asked to make a decision on the organization of sections of the CYCC on the day of the tournament in the time that I have been CFC president. If we applied all of the contradictory rules in the handbook then under 18 open and under 16 open would have been combined as one section with only one winner having the plane ticket funded between the two groups and under 16 girls and under 14 girls would have been combined with the same result of only one winner receiving funding in both sections. Of course there are also sections of the handbook that contradict this interpretation.
The decision made was a compromise which balanced the various outcomes and conflicting policies and rules and resolved the contradictions in the simplest way. I became involved in CFC governance because I disagreed with a decision of the executive some four or five years ago. I figured that if I didn't get involved I didn't have much standing to complain about the decisions being made by those who were involved. Here is your chance to get involved and right the wrongs being done. There is still time to run for executive positions including president. Its your move.
So.....your response to my assertion that CYCC contestants, their parents, and the organizers, should all have ready access to the rules currently in force is 'put up or shut up'? That's sad, Vlad.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
"While the player in question applied on July 1st, I only became aware of the application fairly late on July 5th (Sunday) with the tournament set to begin the next day. The decision to allow it was only made on the day of the tournament hence the lack of notice."
Can someone please explain to all of us how it takes four days to send an email or call you, especially within the same city? Considering the lack of notice wouldn't it have been the "ethical" decision to reject the change as you were made aware of this after the registration deadline? It seems to interests of a single player outweighed the interests of the entire field (especially U18).
" This is normal operating procedure as this was the third time I was asked to make a decision on the organization of sections of the CYCC on the day of the tournament in the time that I have been CFC president.""
Was this the merging of sections or player(s) moving up? These two are fundamentally different: a player can easily contact the organizers regarding the merging of sections based off the number of preregistered entrants. A player will make no inquiry to organizer on whether a certain player(s) has made a request to play up.
If players were needed in U18 and a request was from only one player to move up, that too 3 days in advance, to be fair and equitable to all it was only appropriate to notify all players at least in U16 (or even U14, U12, U10 and U8) that a request to move up can be made before registration closed. Then immediately after registration closed based on a criteria acceptance/rejection of none/one/more players to play up in U18 decision be made and moving up decision be published immediately after registration closed or within a reasonable time frame (within 8-10 hours of registration closing) not 15 minutes before the start of the tournament.
I may also add it seems to inconceivable to make key tournament decisions on the day of the tournament.
"While the player in question applied on July 1st, I only became aware of the application fairly late on July 5th (Sunday) with the tournament set to begin the next day. The decision to allow it was only made on the day of the tournament hence the lack of notice."
Can someone please explain to all of us how it takes four days to send an email or call you, especially within the same city? Considering the lack of notice wouldn't it have been the "ethical" decision to reject the change as you were made aware of this after the registration deadline? It seems to interests of a single player outweighed the interests of the entire field (especially U18).
" This is normal operating procedure as this was the third time I was asked to make a decision on the organization of sections of the CYCC on the day of the tournament in the time that I have been CFC president.""
Was this the merging of sections or player(s) moving up? These two are fundamentally different: a player can easily contact the organizers regarding the merging of sections based off the number of preregistered entrants. A player will make no inquiry to organizer on whether a certain player(s) has made a request to play up.
If players were needed in U18 and a request was from only one player to move up, that too 3 days in advance, to be fair and equitable to all it was only appropriate to notify all players at least in U16 (or even U14, U12, U10 and U8) that a request to move up can be made before registration closed. Then immediately after registration closed based on a criteria acceptance/rejection of none/one/more players to play up in U18 decision be made and moving up decision be published immediately after registration closed or within a reasonable time frame (within 8-10 hours of registration closing) not 15 minutes before the start of the tournament.
I may also add it seems to inconceivable to make key tournament decisions on the day of the tournament.
Hey Anish, good luck adjusting to the REAL WORLD. Because in the REAL WORLD, decisions get made in an instant, and everyone affected may have only minutes or even seconds to adjust.
Inconceivable, you call it. You are definitely not ready for prime time. You sound just like a spoiled chess kid, where everything about the game you are about to play is totally controlled and nothing unexpected ever comes up. Your talk about 'preparation' like it's the ultimate, which is exactly one reason why so many kids drop out of chess in their 20s -- too much memorization for too little gain. Sure, it's always good to know something about who and what you're up against, but don't make it a necessary precondition. Just learn to adjust to whatever comes up.
You also talk about 'fair and equitable to all'. A nice ideal, but it's fairyland. The real world is anything BUT fair and equitable to all, and it will NEVER be any different.
I am reminded of tennis player Jimmy Connors, who won something like 8 Grand Slam events not on dominating talent or skill (he lacked a big serve or a serve-and-volley game, but still won 2 Wimbledons), but on pure combativeness. He said that unless someone told him, he didn't know beforehand who he was playing next in even the major events. There was no 'preparation', it was all about him adjusting to whatever he was up against.
I even have to side with Vlad Drkulec on this one, although I am all for players moving up a section (with one exception: if they qualified by winning a specific age group event). But when Vlad says that decisions often have to be made on the day of the event, well, good, that teaches the kids more about the real world.
Anish, whatever you do, don't take up poker. Because in a poker event, players get moved from table to table all the time. Poker players are the best when it comes to dealing with the kind of changes that the REAL WORLD throws one's way every day.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Hey Anish, good luck adjusting to the REAL WORLD. Because in the REAL WORLD, decisions get made in an instant, and everyone affected may have only minutes or even seconds to adjust.
Inconceivable, you call it. You are definitely not ready for prime time. You sound just like a spoiled chess kid, where everything about the game you are about to play is totally controlled and nothing unexpected ever comes up. Your talk about 'preparation' like it's the ultimate, which is exactly one reason why so many kids drop out of chess in their 20s -- too much memorization for too little gain. Sure, it's always good to know something about who and what you're up against, but don't make it a necessary precondition. Just learn to adjust to whatever comes up.
You also talk about 'fair and equitable to all'. A nice ideal, but it's fairyland. The real world is anything BUT fair and equitable to all, and it will NEVER be any different.
I am reminded of tennis player Jimmy Connors, who won something like 8 Grand Slam events not on dominating talent or skill (he lacked a big serve or a serve-and-volley game, but still won 2 Wimbledons), but on pure combativeness. He said that unless someone told him, he didn't know beforehand who he was playing next in even the major events. There was no 'preparation', it was all about him adjusting to whatever he was up against.
I even have to side with Vlad Drkulec on this one, although I am all for players moving up a section (with one exception: if they qualified by winning a specific age group event). But when Vlad says that decisions often have to be made on the day of the event, well, good, that teaches the kids more about the real world.
Anish, whatever you do, don't take up poker. Because in a poker event, players get moved from table to table all the time. Poker players are the best when it comes to dealing with the kind of changes that the REAL WORLD throws one's way every day.
Why does it seem whenever any questions are asked the only response is illogical rhetoric?
It seems you've stuck your head in the sand as your only response is to come up with futile insults against me instead of actually bringing up logical counter arguments other than your own personal (and flawed) ideology.
Reading your response almost reminds me of watching a child trying to swear, the effort is there but the end result is someone making a fool of themselves.
We are in the "REAL WORLD". Or is it not real until you reach the age of 18, or is it 20? Perhaps when you get a job the world becomes real? Why does someone have to "adjust to the real world" when they are in it? What's your defining line where someone get's into this apparently new thing to us U16 people called the real world? If you pay $225 (or $250) to the CYCC organizers you have the right to question/complain about the The goal is to avoid such a situation in the future, but I suppose in the "REAL WORLD" people never learn from their mistakes. By the way I'm not arguing against the right to play up, I'm arguing against the players learning of the option or the fact that someone can/is playing up the day of the tournament.
"While the player in question applied on July 1st, I only became aware of the application fairly late on July 5th (Sunday) with the tournament set to begin the next day. The decision to allow it was only made on the day of the tournament hence the lack of notice."
Can someone please explain to all of us how it takes four days to send an email or call you, especially within the same city?
The answer is that the principals were spread out across the continent. One was in Virginia playing in a tournament. Another was in Montreal and only landed in Windsor July 5th. One or two were in Windsor. All of them were very busy and answering a very large volume of communications both in email and on the telephone.
Considering the lack of notice wouldn't it have been the "ethical" decision to reject the change as you were made aware of this after the registration deadline?
The registration deadline was an artificial construct which I did not agree with or agree to. I registered my disagreement with it. The deadline was ignored by the organizers and there was a plan to ignore it in the event of walk-ins who were allowed to register. The aim of the deadline was to avoid having one hundred people show up to register at the last minute. There were a few manageable number of walk-ins and they did not result in any significant delay in the first round time.
Ethical is to decide what the rules are which apply to a particular situation and to apply them in a humane way. You always have to ask what your outcome is. If my goal was to block a talented player from playing in an older section well I should have argued against the idea more effectively three years ago. I lost that argument. I got over it. Your complaint is that I didn't apply some artificial technicality about a deadline. OPR: Homey don't play that game.
It seems to interests of a single player outweighed the interests of the entire field (especially U18).
Actually he completed the under 18 section so he did not outweigh their interests. In fact, his participation meant that I could ignore the portion of the handbook which suggests that the two sections be merged which would have been problematic from the point of view of FIDE ratings and skewing of results. Life tends to be more complicated than the simple black and white picture that you are trying to paint.
Nemojte srati gdje jedeš.
" This is normal operating procedure as this was the third time I was asked to make a decision on the organization of sections of the CYCC on the day of the tournament in the time that I have been CFC president.""
Was this the merging of sections or player(s) moving up? These two are fundamentally different:
No they are not fundamentally different but related. Merging was unnecessary because someone played up.
I may also add it seems to inconceivable to make key tournament decisions on the day of the tournament.
Obligatory Princess Bride pop reference: I don't think that word (inconceivable) means what you think it means.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Saturday, 1st August, 2015, 01:46 AM.
"The answer is that the principals were spread out across the continent. One was in Virginia playing in a tournament. Another was in Montreal and only landed in Windsor July 5th. One or two were in Windsor. All of them were very busy and answering a very large volume of communications both in email and on the telephone."
Undoubtedly they were very busy as it was the CYCC they were organizing, but being "very busy" isn't an excuse a seven year old can make when he/she doesn't do their homework, let alone the president of a prestigious organization like the CFC and an event as significant as the CYCC.
"Actually he completed the under 18 section so he did not outweigh their interests. In fact, his participation meant that I could ignore the portion of the handbook which suggests that the two sections be merged which would have been problematic from the point of view of FIDE ratings and skewing of results. Life tends to be more complicated than the simple black and white picture that you are trying to paint."
You fail to understand the complaint is not about being allowed to play up (which I have stated earlier that I have no objection to), however the issue for many is of notification and transparency. Why was there not any information sent out to the entire field about the opportunity to play up to everyone since players were needed in the U18 section in order to avoid merging the U16 and U18 sections? Instead of stating a clear policy on this, players and parents were left in the dark on whether or not it was possible and were stuck with an old, outdated handbook in which each rule seems to be nullified with a new back-door meeting everyday.
Regardless of what value you put on preparation, almost all of the field (including myself) had their names on the preregistered page in their proper sections by July 4th, so why did the player in question avoid having his name in the proper section of the registered page until the tournament actually started? Clearly the player in question has been given special privileges that the entire field hasn't received.
It appears we only seem to have excuses instead of correcting ones errors. I highly recommend you read Steve Jobs' take on reasons and excuses. "When you're the janitor, reasons matter. Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering."
[I][COLOR="#FF0000"]"
It appears we only seem to have excuses instead of correcting ones errors.
It is your contention that there were errors made that need correction. Simply making that contention does not make it so. I disagree.
{Motion Palsson/Doubleday 2007-08 GL1 From AGM} When there are less than eight players for any category, then one or more categories shall be combined so that there are no less than 8 players in the combined category. The combined category shall be decided by the tournament organizers unless directed otherwise by the CFC President who shall have the final authority to rule on this matter.
I highly recommend you read Steve Jobs' take on reasons and excuses. "When you're the janitor, reasons matter. Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering."
Only now do you finally understand - if you read and comprehend your own statement.
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