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Women will be forced to compete in hijabs at the next world championship in Iran
I believe that we will see at least some of the money in the future if we play nice and continue to build relationships with FIDE. If we choose to burn our bridges then we will not see any of the money, ever.
If we had been faster out of the gate to organize the tournaments we would have already had more of the money but its hard to ask for the next installment when we haven't completed the first set of tournaments. By the time we had completed the first set with the events in Alberta which bailed us out from an embarassing situation of not having organized the tournaments we said we would, there were already problems at FIDE.
deleted deleted
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Sunday, 2nd October, 2016, 11:50 PM.
In fact if the rumours are correct we will soon have an example of the idiocy of the Kasparov team in Canada which I will report at the appropriate time. Hopefully the rumours will not come to pass.
So... the guy is bad for reasons you will disclose at some point in the future. But you might not have to disclose these reasons because... eh... it's only hearsay?
I'm sorry, but this is objectively dumb. You either have reasonable (and thus presentable) evidence to believe Kasparov is not fit for the job, or you don't. The way you present it, it's like we have to take your word as cash on the matter, without you ever commiting to anything.
And I'm not taking sides here, just pointing out a huge logical fallacy in your statement. You want us to consider your view on the matter, without ever presenting the underlying facts that lead you there. It's not serious.
Last edited by Mathieu Cloutier; Monday, 3rd October, 2016, 02:48 AM.
Re: Women will be forced to compete in hijabs at the next world championship in Iran
I presume the posters on this thread understand the difference between the hijab (an attractive scarf with the style varying widely from country to country. See Wikipedia.) and the burka or niqab which is a full face covering. In general, I take the view that men and women should be free to wear whatever they wish. On a religious occasion, there are some constraints---e.g. the hats worn by women in Anglican and Jewish places of worship. I must admit that I too am squeamish about full face coverings which have no place in western society. But the hijab is really no big deal for me, any more than requiring men not to wear jeans at a golf course or long pants at the Masters.
That said, what is worn inside the playing hall is surely within the discretion of FIDE. If FIDE requires the hijab at the Women's World Chess Championship it is FIDE alone to blame.
I presume the posters on this thread understand the difference between the hijab (an attractive scarf with the style varying widely from country to country. See Wikipedia.) and the burka or niqab which is a full face covering. In general, I take the view that men and women should be free to wear whatever they wish. On a religious occasion, there are some constraints---e.g. the hats worn by women in Anglican and Jewish places of worship. I must admit that I too am squeamish about full face coverings which have no place in western society. But the hijab is really no big deal for me, any more than requiring men not to wear jeans at a golf course or long pants at the Masters.
That said, what is worn inside the playing hall is surely within the discretion of FIDE. If FIDE requires the hijab at the Women's World Chess Championship it is FIDE alone to blame.
Gordon, in my opinion you missed the point entirely. The Hijab is considered by hundreds of thousands of women in Iran as yet another symbol of Islamic oppression of women. They risk their lives and liberty daily by defying this edict. The FIDE Women's Commissioner Susan Polgar insists that women chess players should "respect" Iranian culture and wear the hijab. This would be like telling the few Jewish athletes that competed in the Berlin 1936 Olympics that they should respect German culture and don the yellow star of David (a Nazi edict inflicted on all Jews living in Germany). The US Women's chess champion has decided to boycott the tournament for these reasons even though it would be the most important of her career.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Monday, 3rd October, 2016, 11:48 AM.
Re: Women will be forced to compete in hijabs at the next world championship in Iran
What happens if the women need to be searched for possible communication devices - can they refuse like what happened to a Montreal student recently? She was about to write an exam, and was asked to remove her hijab (or at least raise part of it) so her ears could be "searched" for devices. She refused and was denied the right to take the exam.
Re: Women will be forced to compete in hijabs at the next world championship in Iran
I take your point and it is offensive to our way of thinking that the state should dictate the headwear of women anywhere. The issue is the role of FIDE. In the past, as you know very well, they have sited important contests in countries which were hostile to certain groups (e.g. Jews) without any qualms. So much for their motto.
But FIDE does control the playing hall and surely they will not be so craven as to require women to wear the Hijab while playing!?
I take your point and it is offensive to our way of thinking that the state should dictate the headwear of women anywhere. The issue is the role of FIDE. In the past, as you know very well, they have sited important contests in countries which were hostile to certain groups (e.g. Jews) without any qualms. So much for their motto.
But FIDE does control the playing hall and surely they will not be so craven as to require women to wear the Hijab while playing!?
I wonder what makes you think "FIDE controls the playing hall"?
It seems folly to think any outside organization controls anything at all in Iran... the Ayatolah makes the rules and everyone falls in line.
Re: Women will be forced to compete in hijabs at the next world championship in Iran
Sid, no offense, but comparison of the hijab to the yellow star of David is specious. The yellow star was used by the Nazi regime in it's systematic genocide policy to the Jewish people. The hijab is worn in muslin society as a belief that women should dress modestly. Modesty is a relative term and is dependent on society's norms, which change with place and time.
As an example, there are women in Canada who have successfully fought for the right to go topless in public. They consider being forced to wear a top when outside a sign of oppression, as men are allowed to be topless in public. Would you have any issue if the Women's Championship was held in a place banning the players from playing topless?
In France, they have banned the burkini, and the wearing of religious symbols in public institutions. If the event was being held in France and they had banned the wearing of the hijab by the players, would you be supporting this, recognising the hajib as Islamic oppression of women, or denouncing it as suppression of religious freedoms?
I have worked with women from Iran and other middle eastern countries who are educated professional engineers, and they do not consider their wearing of the hijab as any sort of oppression and are in fact proud to wear it. I'm not ready to judge the hijab as a symbol of moral oppression.
But FIDE does control the playing hall and surely they will not be so craven as to require women to wear the Hijab while playing!?
Gordon, as a point they already did in the recent past. See the Women's Grand Prix event that was recently held. All the female players had to wear the hajib while playing.
Sid, no offense, but comparison of the hijab to the yellow star of David is specious. The yellow star was used by the Nazi regime in it's systematic genocide policy to the Jewish people. The hijab is worn in muslin society as a belief that women should dress modestly. Modesty is a relative term and is dependent on society's norms, which change with place and time.
As an example, there are women in Canada who have successfully fought for the right to go topless in public. They consider being forced to wear a top when outside a sign of oppression, as men are allowed to be topless in public. Would you have any issue if the Women's Championship was held in a place banning the players from playing topless?
In France, they have banned the burkini, and the wearing of religious symbols in public institutions. If the event was being held in France and they had banned the wearing of the hijab by the players, would you be supporting this, recognising the hajib as Islamic oppression of women, or denouncing it as suppression of religious freedoms?
I have worked with women from Iran and other middle eastern countries who are educated professional engineers, and they do not consider their wearing of the hijab as any sort of oppression and are in fact proud to wear it. I'm not ready to judge the hijab as a symbol of moral oppression.
Sid, no offense, but comparison of the hijab to the yellow star of David is specious
I disagree, in both cases oppressed groups are forced to wear articles of clothing against their wishes. The Burkini is banned in France as it covers the entire face thus is useful for a criminal to be disguised. They have no issue with the Hijab. I do not have any issue with what people wear if it is not done oppressively. In certain African countries topless for females is normal and I have no problem with it. The women that you say are proud of their Hijab is not a reason to force all women to wear them. I am not alone in viewing the Hijab as a symbol of moral oppression as that is exactly what it is. When someone else inflicts their beliefs no matter how benign in appearance on others it is oppression and therefore morally wrong.
I do not think it is a coincidence that gays and others are routinely executed in Iran just like in Nazi Germany
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Monday, 3rd October, 2016, 05:53 PM.
I am not sure we are divided. No one likes the idea of women being forced to conform to the local customs but no one wants to prevent our Canadian champion from attending a tournament that she wants to attend and no one in this discussion except maybe Sid or his buddy Garry has the wherewithal to sponsor such a tournament in the west where no one will be forced to wear anything.
We ourselves have been faced with the situation of having to accept a substandard bid because it was the only one on the table. Unless we are willing to step up and organize the tournament we really don't have a lot to say.
I presume the posters on this thread understand the difference between the hijab (an attractive scarf with the style varying widely from country to country. See Wikipedia.) and the burka or niqab which is a full face covering. In general, I take the view that men and women should be free to wear whatever they wish. On a religious occasion, there are some constraints---e.g. the hats worn by women in Anglican and Jewish places of worship. I must admit that I too am squeamish about full face coverings which have no place in western society. But the hijab is really no big deal for me, any more than requiring men not to wear jeans at a golf course or long pants at the Masters.
That said, what is worn inside the playing hall is surely within the discretion of FIDE. If FIDE requires the hijab at the Women's World Chess Championship it is FIDE alone to blame.
I'm sorry, but there is so much more to this then wearing a scarf. My opinion is it's a method that males control female citizens and send a clear message that they are second class citizens. Even if one tries to down play that aspect, my understanding is that some who do wear it willingly consider it an open statement about their own beliefs. Enforcing wear for those who don't have those beliefs is an offence to those woman too.
And lastly, I have yet to see a statement that the men in attendance ( either as coaches, spectators, or officials ) have to condone to a similar dress code. If there is a code, why have we not heard about it yet ? This recent news helps illustrate certain aspects of Iran today :
Re: Women will be forced to compete in hijabs at the next world championship in Iran
You are correct but it's always difficult to have others face this reality and take a stand. And why on earth should a Canadian teenager have to face such a choice for a chess game ? Canadian chess officials too often go along with FIDE's mistakes because it's a monopoly situation and they are linked directly to them for certain events. I think FIDE has crossed a moral line here and it's embarrassing for the CFC to even hint at being agreeable in this situation.
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Monday, 3rd October, 2016, 09:22 PM.
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