Recognize Chess as a Sport in Canada

[Fred Harvey]

Nice try, Peter, I'm not biting.

I'm not against those 50-something males, they made their bed, they can lie in it. Nor am I cyber stalking anyone.

I am against taxpayer funding for sports, aside from facilities provision and maintenance.

That's it and that's all. Your troll talk only makes YOU look bad.

Peter's problem is not troll talk - it's feeding the troll that's the problem!

[Peter McKillop]

Nice try, Peter, I'm not biting.

I'm not against those 50-something males, they made their bed, they can lie in it. Nor am I cyber stalking anyone.

I am against taxpayer funding for sports, aside from facilities provision and maintenance.

That's it and that's all. Your troll talk only makes YOU look bad.

Gee whiz, Pargat. You're a very confused guy. YOU are the one who brought up the matter of "sad addiction stories." Then YOU told David O. he was brave for acknowledging and confirming the matter (btw, Pargat, it's been common knowledge for a long, long time). Then I, in a spirit of beneficence and reconciliation, respectfully suggest a way in which you can change your life for the better and you counter with disrespect. Tsk, tsk.

[J. Crowhurst]

I think you do hear about them, and I think they do serve as cautionary tales. I know when I finished university and had reached master strength, I had a serious look in the mirror, I looked around at the state of top Canadian chess and the players, assessed the upper limits of my own potential (which I deemed to be probably FM, maybe a weak IM if I really went for it and things broke right), and basically dropped out of serious chess to pursue more conventional career success. Ironically, the same goes for my poker experience.

That said, some of the friendships I made, the experiences I had, and the lessons I learned from chess and poker are all things I consider to have been super valuable throughout my life.

Most activities carry some positives, but some risks. Chess generally I think people have a great chance of getting the vast majority of the positives with minimal risk and minimal investment. I don't really object to pursuing gov't funding on this as long as it's going to expose chess to the widest range of people possible and not to support elite chess. Put another way - I'd rather see 100,000 kids get a rating of 1000 than 10 kids get a rating of 2500, and I think Canadian society would see a positive return from that investment.

This is exactly my experience and opinion except for one thing - I didn't take a look in the mirror, I looked around at all the assholes who came to the tournaments I was directing and never shut up about all the things we could do to make it better for them. But yeah, all the rest of it....

[Patrick Kirby]

There was a general crackdown by the CRA on all charities which caught CFC. As I recall, it didn't help that parents were claiming costs to accompany kids to the world events as charitable donations on tax returns.

Well, then I'd say the onus is on us in the chess community. If we want chess recognized as a sport, we need to push for the CFC to register as an amateur athletic association and make sure that they run the charitable donations program in an appropriate way.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Hmm.. that's surprising to me. I don't know why the CFC wouldn't qualify as an amateur athletic association, it seems to meet the CRA's definition more-or-less to the letter (the only stumbling block being whether chess is classified as a sport):

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...sociation.html

We wouldn't qualify because of the definition of amateur athletic association requiring a physical aspect to the sport. This is probably not insurmountable with some lobbying. There are costs to being an amateur athletic asssociation which would not be justified by the current level of donations that we might expect by becoming such an organization. Even the intermediate step of becoming a soliciting corporation (raising more than $10k per year from the public and non-members) is something that would stretch our current capabilities. This is something in our future but it only makes sense once we are able to attract a steady stream of such funds. If you raise $10,001 from non-members or public institutions you have to have audited financial statements which cost north of $4500 about five or six years ago and likely have gone up along with the general inflation rate since. If you can raise $50,000 or more every year then it makes sense to take that step and become a soliciting corporation. Raising $10,001 might even have a negative impact since once you stop raising money you still need audited statements so that that one time $10,001 donation could conceivably cost you $20,000 in accounting fees over the next few years.

We are recognized as the national sport organization for chess by the Canadian Olympic Committee and that opens some doors. FIDE is similarly recognized on the international level by the IOC. This has allowed the CFC to be part of Sports Tourism Canada which has resulted in many tens of thousands being available to sponsor tournaments, usually from municipalities or local tourism bureaus. These relationships have to be nurtured over years as it might take five or six years from first contact to a cheque being cut or more likely a donation in kind of a free facility to an organizer of the Canadian Open and CYCC.

The CFC could have tried to defend its charitable status but the costs would have been high and the level of charitable donations was low relative to the amount that would have had to go out in legal fees to win the case. I can't disagree with the cost/benefit analysis that caused the CFC to give up its status without fighting for it.The tax break for charitable donations has gone down quite a bit in the interim so it is not the most pressing item on the agenda.

There have been a few that have sought to launch a youth oriented association by spinning off portions of the CFC but those didn't go far as the foundation funds have little to do with youth activities with the bulk coming from life memberships of adult players though there was at least one newborn recently whose parent bought a membership for themself and their child.

[Bob Armstrong]

Vlad - thanks for taking the time for a detailed explanation re charitable status, etc.

Bob A

[Vlad Drkulec]

You are welcome Bob. While I vehemently disagree with most of your politics, I still like you as a person who I recall fondly. You are always respectful. I remember a game we played where you played very stubbornly despite the rating difference.

[Pargat Perrer]

Gee whiz, Pargat. You're a very confused guy. YOU are the one who brought up the matter of "sad addiction stories." Then YOU told David O. he was brave for acknowledging and confirming the matter (btw, Pargat, it's been common knowledge for a long, long time). Then I, in a spirit of beneficence and reconciliation, respectfully suggest a way in which you can change your life for the better and you counter with disrespect. Tsk, tsk.

No confusion here, Peter. I brought up chess addiction as a reminder of exactly what taxpayer funding of chess would entail. Yes. Ontario govt is involved in liquor and cannabis sales, and both are tied strongly to addiction. Ontario officially supports addictions. Does that mean it's right?

You keep implying that my involvement in this thread is a pursuit of self-glory ("change my life for the better" LOL). In the process, you demeaned humanitarianism which really made you look bad. However, I also know you are not a member of the political far right. Or even the right period. I know exactly what is fueling your posts against me, Dr. Fraud, and the hypocrisy and double standards you have been shown to have make a strong case for some need for psychiatric treatment for yourself.

Don't think for a minute you can pull the wool over my eyes, as I think the expression goes.

[Peter McKillop]

No confusion here, Peter. I brought up chess addiction as a reminder of exactly what taxpayer funding of chess would entail. Yes. Ontario govt is involved in liquor and cannabis sales, and both are tied strongly to addiction. Ontario officially supports addictions. Does that mean it's right?

You keep implying that my involvement in this thread is a pursuit of self-glory ("change my life for the better" LOL). In the process, you demeaned humanitarianism which really made you look bad. However, I also know you are not a member of the political far right. Or even the right period. I know exactly what is fueling your posts against me, Dr. Fraud, and the hypocrisy and double standards you have been shown to have make a strong case for some need for psychiatric treatment for yourself.

Don't think for a minute you can pull the wool over my eyes, as I think the expression goes.

Well, Pargat, it looks to me like you've built a very compelling case against government funding for chess. Let's review your key points, shall we?

- First we have the scourge of children dying in overcrowded ERs the day after winning prizes in chess tournaments.

- Next we have the scourge of 50-something males who are facing bleak prospects in their retirement years because they devoted their lives to chess.

- Then we have the rampant scourge of cleavage at chess tournaments!

- Finally, if someone supports government funding for chess then you, Pargat, will pray for karma to visit them.

Your points look solid, Pargat. It's time for you to go public with this. Press conference anyone? What's that you say, Pargat? You wouldn't dare spout this crap out in public because people (your family, your friends (if you have any), your colleagues from work, your employer, etc.) would think you're a complete idiot? If that's the case then why are you spouting this crap here?

Time for you to sit down and STFU.

[Pargat Perrer]

.....
Time for you to sit down and STFU.

Time for you to move to China, Peter.

[Larry Castle]

Well, Pargat, it looks to me like you've built a very compelling case against government funding for chess. Let's review your key points, shall we?

- First we have the scourge of children dying in overcrowded ERs the day after winning prizes in chess tournaments.

- Next we have the scourge of 50-something males who are facing bleak prospects in their retirement years because they devoted their lives to chess.

- Then we have the rampant scourge of cleavage at chess tournaments!

- Finally, if someone supports government funding for chess then you, Pargat, will pray for karma to visit them.

Your points look solid, Pargat. It's time for you to go public with this. Press conference anyone? What's that you say, Pargat? You wouldn't dare spout this crap out in public because people (your family, your friends (if you have any), your colleagues from work, your employer, etc.) would think you're a complete idiot? If that's the case then why are you spouting this crap here?

Time for you to sit down and STFU.

Thank you, Peter, well said.

[Pargat Perrer]

Thank you, Peter, well said.

Says a long-time chessplayer who has not distinguished himself in the game and who seems to value the game ahead of people's lives.

[John Brown]

So I guess the fastest ways to get rid of hospital back logs is to Privatize the system and offer patients doctors who don't have them. Then we can get back to discussing chess.

[Frank Dixon]

My respectful suggestion is that the Ottawa chess community organize a Parliamentary chess match!!!

MPs and Senators would be eligible to play, and it could be conducted along party lines, as it is in the United Kingdom.

Maybe we could even get a board one encounter between PM Justin Trudeau (assisted as needed by NDP leader Jagmeet Singh, who does play chess, as I hear it), and Tory leader Pierre Poilievre!! I am not sure if the PM plays chess. In that scenario, look for Poilievre to adopt a blockading strategy!!

If so, I would travel up from Kingston to assist in the organization and running of the match!!

Respectfully,
Frank Dixon
NTD, Kingston

[Sid Belzberg]

My respectful suggestion is that the Ottawa chess community organize a Parliamentary chess match!!!

MPs and Senators would be eligible to play, and it could be conducted along party lines, as it is in the United Kingdom.

Maybe we could even get a board one encounter between PM Justin Trudeau (assisted as needed by NDP leader Jagmeet Singh, who does play chess, as I hear it), and Tory leader Pierre Poilievre!! I am not sure if the PM plays chess. In that scenario, look for Poilievre to adopt a blockading strategy!!

If so, I would travel up from Kingston to assist in the organization and running of the match!!

Respectfully,
Frank Dixon
NTD, Kingston

At the 1966 Chess Olympiad in Havana, Fidel Castro and Che Guevera played and participated in friendly (?) consultation matches. Duncan Suttles told me years ago
that Fidel was actually quite good and estimated that he was an A player. The players were very frightened of the tyrant Fidel, and Fischer, who never lost to anyone, wisely lost his game to Fidel.
Probably a good idea if such a match occurs to avoid beating Trudeau, who is of the same ilk as Fidel :-)