Recognize Chess as a Sport in Canada

[Grey Guo]

Many junior chess players quit competitive chess from high school, the recognition of chess as sport will help this, it will automatically qualify chess as the high performance sports program, so kids can spend some time in school on chess and get credit for graduation. This is not about money investment from tax payer for most of the chess parents.

[Peter McKillop]

Dr. Fraud, it looks like YOU may be the one who is ... unstable? Do you live alone? Are you a senior citizen, with no family or contacts to keep in touch with? Are you jealous of people who have contacts? Do you criticize people for showing humanitarian values?

At any rate .... I am hearing from my contacts that there is nothing to worry about here. There is no stomach at the federal or provincial level for funding something like chess. Doug Ford is under a lot of pressure in Ontario about healthcare funding, as he should be.

This petition of Olga's would amount to nothing, I am assured. Even a few thousand signatures isn't going to get anyone's attention.

Nevertheless, I will be moving ahead with my own petition to severely curtail public sports funding, which my contacts are very intrigued by and feel maybe it's something that is overdue. Almost all of them are ready to get behind it, in fact I haven't had a "no" answer yet, but a few have wanted to hear more details first.

Let's see, the entire chess community versus Ontarians who are worried about healthcare funding and insuficient healthcare resources. Who do you think the numbers favour? :) It's a rhetorical question, naturally.

I guess I should thank Olga. She has inspired me to finally do something I have long wanted to do but kept putting off. You can bask in your moments in the sun, Olga, but your greed will get you nowhere.

Maybe you are a follower of Mr Gillanders, who thinks there are huge hoards of money sitting in safes and safety deposit boxes all around Canada, just sitting there not being spent on anything, and all the government has to do is take a big chunk of that money, and voila, we have increased funding for "everything".

Naive ... silly ... stupid. Mr. Gillanders is definitely NOT a good example of chess teaching critical thinking skills.

Some other contacts of mine in the media are telling me they are ready to work on this story in the new year -- not the chess story, the sports funding story. That will only increase the pressure on people like Doug Ford. In January and February, the hospital situations are really going to get extreme. This story has the potential to really gain support for curtaling sports fundings other than facilities provision and maintenance, and that is long overdue.

Just a quick response for now. I may add some edits later when I have some time.

First, I think it's widely accepted that exercise, including competitive sports, has beneficial physical and mental health impacts for children and adults. I have no objection in principle to governments providing some funding for physical activities that will boost the overall healthiness of the population. I haven't checked, but I feel certain, and it seems intuitively obvious, that there must be academic studies which find that pressure on medical infrastructure reduces as the overall health of the population improves. So, Pargat, I suspect your position to severely curtail public funding for sports, so that more money can be pumped into the health system, would be illogical and self-defeating. I do think that public monies spent on sports should be subject to periodic review to determine if the monies are being spent wisely.

Is chess a sport? I don't think so, although it does have certain benefits for young and old minds which have been publicized many times over the last several decades. Leisure activities other than sports can also provide benefits for the population so, in principle, I don't object to some government funding for those activities.

Your comments about Bob G. and Olga are unkind and uncalled for. Attacking people with ridiculous, untruthful comments is an unfortunate part of your personality. Also, if you're going to make comments like this about other people then you should make them directly rather than being a weasel and slipping them into a post to me.

[John Brown]

If you want to help the health care system get rid of the administration which costs tax payers billions each year. That could hire tons of doctors and nurses. I have been in the emergency and waited. I would say 80% of the people in there waiting do not have a doctor and really don't need to be there. I had to go because a procedure I needed done had to be done at emergency as no clinic could do it. As for the rush on kids getting sick. Hey we all got sick as kids. We didn't run to emergency with a cold or fever. WE only ran when we could not be looked after at home. I think nowadays parents panic too much. But of course how many parents stay at home these days? We all know Ford wants to privatize health care to make money for his rich buddies in Health care. They are not going to solve the problems now they are just going to let them get worse. What they need to do is create clinics that stay open 24 Hrs that can see people with all types of problems from medical to mental and assess patients that walk in correctly and only send those who need Emergency care to emergency. The back log is created by panic not common sense.

[Brad Thomson]

I would say 80% of the people in there waiting do not have a doctor and really don't need to be there... Hey we all got sick as kids. We didn't run to emergency with a cold or fever. WE only ran when we could not be looked after at home. I think nowadays parents panic too much. But of course how many parents stay at home these days?...What they need to do is create clinics that stay open 24 Hrs that can see people with all types of problems from medical to mental and assess patients that walk in correctly and only send those who need Emergency care to emergency. The back log is created by panic not common sense.

Agreed completely, this has been my basic position on the question for many, many years.

[Frank Dixon]

I believe the United Kingdom Parliament has had this very debate, and chess is now recognized as a sport there.

I believe also that the House of Commons in London has an annual chess match (along Party lines) among members of Parliament, of long standing (back into 1800s!).

The Prince of Wales, now Prince William, is a keen chess player. Both William and his brother Prince Harry were taught chess as young boys by their mother, Princess Diana.

I don't know of any current federal MPs who are chess players, but I do know that Ontario Liberal MPP Dr. Ted Hsu (Kingston and the Islands) is a very keen and talented player. He even defeated a National Master, Christopher Pace, in a game at the Kingston Chess Club a few years ago (posted here on chesstalk!). Ted, who has had his rating as high as 1900, and who was a very talented junior in Kingston in the 1970s (an organizer as well!) served as a federal MP for Kingston and the Islands from 2011-2015. Ted, with a PhD in physics from Princeton University, was elected to a four-year term at Queen's Park in the June 2022 election.

Remember also that playing chess has positive health benefits!!!

Good luck and good skill, Olga!! The time could be right to win this fight!!

Respectfully,
Frank Dixon
NTD, Kingston

[Dilip Panjwani]

Today's cbc.ca headline, on the Health-care system crisis:
Pouring billions into broken system like 'pouring hot water into a leaky bathtub': Canadian Health Coalition

[Olga Mushtaler]

I believe the United Kingdom Parliament has had this very debate, and chess is now recognized as a sport there.

I believe also that the House of Commons in London has an annual chess match (along Party lines) among members of Parliament, of long standing (back into 1800s!).

The Prince of Wales, now Prince William, is a keen chess player. Both William and his brother Prince Harry were taught chess as young boys by their mother, Princess Diana.

I don't know of any current federal MPs who are chess players, but I do know that Ontario Liberal MPP Dr. Ted Hsu (Kingston and the Islands) is a very keen and talented player. He even defeated a National Master, Christopher Pace, in a game at the Kingston Chess Club a few years ago (posted here on chesstalk!). Ted, who has had his rating as high as 1900, and who was a very talented junior in Kingston in the 1970s (an organizer as well!) served as a federal MP for Kingston and the Islands from 2011-2015. Ted, with a PhD in physics from Princeton University, was elected to a four-year term at Queen's Park in the June 2022 election.

Remember also that playing chess has positive health benefits!!!

Good luck and good skill, Olga!! The time could be right to win this fight!!

Respectfully,
Frank Dixon
NTD, Kingston

Thanks Frank. A Professor of Philosophy from Trent University named Michael Hickson is going to help me draft the petition to the Government. And I'm still looking for an MP.
https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/hi...pporting-chess

[Pargat Perrer]

Just a quick response for now. I may add some edits later when I have some time.

First, I think it's widely accepted that exercise, including competitive sports, has beneficial physical and mental health impacts for children and adults. I have no objection in principle to governments providing some funding for physical activities that will boost the overall healthiness of the population. I haven't checked, but I feel certain, and it seems intuitively obvious, that there must be academic studies which find that pressure on medical infrastructure reduces as the overall health of the population improves. So, Pargat, I suspect your position to severely curtail public funding for sports, so that more money can be pumped into the health system, would be illogical and self-defeating. I do think that public monies spent on sports should be subject to periodic review to determine if the monies are being spent wisely.

Is chess a sport? I don't think so, although it does have certain benefits for young and old minds which have been publicized many times over the last several decades. Leisure activities other than sports can also provide benefits for the population so, in principle, I don't object to some government funding for those activities.

Your comments about Bob G. and Olga are unkind and uncalled for. Attacking people with ridiculous, untruthful comments is an unfortunate part of your personality. Also, if you're going to make comments like this about other people then you should make them directly rather than being a weasel and slipping them into a post to me.

Well now, Dr. Fraud, you are exhibiting sings of Jekyle and Hyde Syndrome. Total personality shift. Perhaps we need to bring you in for some tests, hmmmm? Please spend some time listening to Pink Floyd "Comfortably Numb" in preparation.

If you were paying attention, you would realize that I DID respond to a posting from Olga and to a posting from Mr. Gillanders.

So I really don't think I need to pay any attention to what you are saying here, Dr. Fraud.

As for my emotional response, well, shame on the rest of you for not realizing how disgusting this entire money grab by Olga (on behalf of CFC?) is. I thought maybe she was naive, but she continues on, undeterred by questions of ethics or morals of taking taxpayer monies for chess prizes that could go to treatment if illness or injury in ER rooms across Ontario. I would have no issues if she were soliciting PRIVATE sources for funding. It's the fact that she wants to grab at taxpayer monies which are limited and meant for doing things for all Ontarians, not just a small niche of people within a larger but still tiny niche of people.

So I feel totally satisfied that I have called her greedy, although since there is no background information about her, we who don't know her don't know her true motivations. Perhaps she has a boyfriend or girlfriend who wants to make money at chess, or perhaps she herself wants to do that. At least she was very clear, right in this thread, that indeed she is trying to grab at taxpayer money and she wants it to go to primarily to fund competitive chess prize money, which would only benefit those who are exceptionally gifted at chess. Perhaps she is herself exceptionally gifted? If yes, then this really smacks of a personal agenda.

It doesn't really matter, I am satisfied her "initiative" is going nowhere. My own counter-initiative will gather steam in the first 3 months of 2023.

[David Ottosen]

Many junior chess players quit competitive chess from high school, the recognition of chess as sport will help this, it will automatically qualify chess as the high performance sports program, so kids can spend some time in school on chess and get credit for graduation. This is not about money investment from tax payer for most of the chess parents.

This is frankly what I would be concerned about; if the federal gov't is going to put money into chess, it shouldn't be at the high school level and it shouldn't be as part of a high performance sports program.

There's absolutely benefits to chess but those benefits are best served at the younger ages, and developed widely. You can list a whole host of reasons that give societal benefit; building objective critical thinking skills, participation in objective competition (you win or lose, no participation ribbon), the ability to focus and concentrate and develop attention span for something, or just something to occupy kids time so they don't feel bored and want to go get involved in unsavory activities.

What I'm not in favor of is getting federal funding for a grant so that a promising FM can plumb the depths of the Najdorf to maybe push to the IM level. That doesn't provide a very wide ranging societal benefit.

[Ken Craft]

My understanding is that chess is recognized nationally as a sport; it is just not funded.

[Erik Malmsten]

Today's cbc.ca headline, on the Health-care system crisis:
Pouring billions into broken system like 'pouring hot water into a leaky bathtub': Canadian Health Coalition

Informative CBC article!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/healt...clos-1.6691196


This year, the cost of delivering health care across the country is expected to hit $331 billion — or roughly $8,563 per Canadian — with expenses covered by Ottawa, the provinces and territories and the private sector.

The $162 million spent on the 66 Olympic and paraolympic athlete organizations is just pennies of what is needed. But Pargat is free to contact all of them and their organizations and demand that they immediately stop training, close down their offices. The leftist organization Bread Not Circuses has been protesting this since 1988.

In July the Premiers demanded an increase of $28 billion, 22% to 35%. The federal government will invest more in health care, but Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says it also needs to ensure that Canadians see the results of an improved system. So we're caught in a dispute between the two levels of government. "I find it outrageous that the premiers refused that extra money, because they won't be accountable," Natalie Stake-Doucet said. "We've no idea where the money goes. You know, hospitals are like a black hole for money."

"The pandemic comes and you had provinces not taking all the money," he said. "They weren't spending it. They were putting caps on wages."

Doctor and researcher Ewan Affleck says cracks were built into the system when health-care delivery was fragmented by region. And those weak points were then laid bare by the pandemic.

"COVID-19 has exposed the grim underbelly of a fragmented, regionalized, costly, and inefficient approach to health service that is an engine for health workforce burnout," he said. "Billions of dollars will not fix matters if the structural problems are ignored," Affleck said in an email to CBC. "[It's] lipstick on a pig."

Health-care culture is also under scrutiny as stressed nurses — the backbone of the system — exit in droves. By 2021, one in four nurses reported they planned to leave their jobs, according to Statistics Canada. Sylvain Brousseau, president of the Canadian Nurses Association, said undervalued nurses are leaving their jobs because their mental health is suffering due to poor working conditions. He said they are often tasked with work that has nothing to do with their training, due to lack of clerical and cleaning staff. “Nurses are doing 48 per cent of non-nursing duties,” he said.

As was reported by Pargat in link to CityNews the province is still short 30,000 nurses. Many can't get full-time jobs with benefits. The nurses have rallied against the Ford government’s Bill 124 that was passed in June 2009. “The nurses just feel they haven’t been given the kind of respect and dignity that they deserve after everything that they’ve sacrificed and they’re leaving the profession because they’re exhausted and stressed out.”

The Canadian Medical Association, the Canadian Nurses Association, and HealthCareCAN, which represents various organizations and hospitals, also teamed up ahead of this week’s meetings to push the health ministers to work together on urgent solutions to staffing shortages, burnout and other ills plaguing the system.

The groups are jointly calling for measures including incentives to retain workers, such as increased mental health supports, as well as a Canada-wide strategy to gather data on the workforce to allow doctors to be licensed more easily wherever they’re most needed. They have also called for improved access to primary care and virtual visits.

[Pargat Perrer]

"Billions of dollars will not fix matters if the structural problems are ignored," (Ewan) Affleck said in an email to CBC. "[It's] lipstick on a pig."

.....

As was reported by Pargat in link to CityNews the province is still short 30,000 nurses. Many can't get full-time jobs with benefits.

Thanks Erik for this well-constructed expose.

Sooooo .... my question to Canadians ....

wouldn't billions of dollars provide FULL TIME JOBS WITH BENEFITS TO NURSES????

Wouldn't we then have more nurses?

Wouldn't that save lives and diminish suffering?

Isn't the goal of health care to save lives and diminish suffering?

Just askin' ......

There are way too many people who think money is more valuable than human lives and suffering. They just don't realize what the true purpose of human life is. But they will find out and be overwhelmed by shame. That goes for you too, Olga.

[John Brown]

Informative CBC article!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/healt...clos-1.6691196


This year, the cost of delivering health care across the country is expected to hit $331 billion — or roughly $8,563 per Canadian — with expenses covered by Ottawa, the provinces and territories and the private sector.

The $162 million spent on the 66 Olympic and paraolympic athlete organizations is just pennies of what is needed. But Pargat is free to contact all of them and their organizations and demand that they immediately stop training, close down their offices. The leftist organization Bread Not Circuses has been protesting this since 1988.

In July the Premiers demanded an increase of $28 billion, 22% to 35%. The federal government will invest more in health care, but Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says it also needs to ensure that Canadians see the results of an improved system. So we're caught in a dispute between the two levels of government. "I find it outrageous that the premiers refused that extra money, because they won't be accountable," Natalie Stake-Doucet said. "We've no idea where the money goes. You know, hospitals are like a black hole for money."

"The pandemic comes and you had provinces not taking all the money," he said. "They weren't spending it. They were putting caps on wages."

Doctor and researcher Ewan Affleck says cracks were built into the system when health-care delivery was fragmented by region. And those weak points were then laid bare by the pandemic.

"COVID-19 has exposed the grim underbelly of a fragmented, regionalized, costly, and inefficient approach to health service that is an engine for health workforce burnout," he said. "Billions of dollars will not fix matters if the structural problems are ignored," Affleck said in an email to CBC. "[It's] lipstick on a pig."

Health-care culture is also under scrutiny as stressed nurses — the backbone of the system — exit in droves. By 2021, one in four nurses reported they planned to leave their jobs, according to Statistics Canada. Sylvain Brousseau, president of the Canadian Nurses Association, said undervalued nurses are leaving their jobs because their mental health is suffering due to poor working conditions. He said they are often tasked with work that has nothing to do with their training, due to lack of clerical and cleaning staff. “Nurses are doing 48 per cent of non-nursing duties,” he said.

As was reported by Pargat in link to CityNews the province is still short 30,000 nurses. Many can't get full-time jobs with benefits. The nurses have rallied against the Ford government’s Bill 124 that was passed in June 2009. “The nurses just feel they haven’t been given the kind of respect and dignity that they deserve after everything that they’ve sacrificed and they’re leaving the profession because they’re exhausted and stressed out.”

The Canadian Medical Association, the Canadian Nurses Association, and HealthCareCAN, which represents various organizations and hospitals, also teamed up ahead of this week’s meetings to push the health ministers to work together on urgent solutions to staffing shortages, burnout and other ills plaguing the system.

The groups are jointly calling for measures including incentives to retain workers, such as increased mental health supports, as well as a Canada-wide strategy to gather data on the workforce to allow doctors to be licensed more easily wherever they’re most needed. They have also called for improved access to primary care and virtual visits.

Peterson made OHIP Free in Ontario to win an election.. So NOW why not charge everyone again and reduce our Health care costs. If every Ontario person 16 years and older paid $365 a year (that's less than a coffee a day) we could brunt some of these costs. Other provinces could do the same. I know that if you make over a certain amount of yearly income you have to pay a premium on your income tax for OHIP. but how many people 16 years and over make more than the threshold required? I'd say very few. Make the pool bigger so everyone can swim rather than leaving the pool small and most can't even get room to cool their feet. More money coming in could hire more Doctors and Nurses. Isn't that what everyone wants more care givers to service more people? Thus reducing wait times?

[Sid Belzberg]

Peterson made OHIP Free in Ontario to win an election.. So NOW why not charge everyone again and reduce our Health care costs. If every Ontario person 16 years and older paid $365 a year (that's less than a coffee a day) we could brunt some of these costs. Other provinces could do the same. I know that if you make over a certain amount of yearly income you have to pay a premium on your income tax for OHIP. but how many people 16 years and over make more than the threshold required? I'd say very few. Make the pool bigger so everyone can swim rather than leaving the pool small and most can't even get room to cool their feet. More money coming in could hire more Doctors and Nurses. Isn't that what everyone wants more care givers to service more people? Thus reducing wait times?

The problem is not healthcare funding. The problem is iatricide.
https://forum.chesstalk.com/forum/ch...543#post223543

[John Brown]

If you are saying that the Government is killing the children's immune systems then maybe it's time for the parents to start looking at the Children's life style and boosting their immune system.. You get Vitamin D from supplements and playing in the sun outdoors. You don't get it from playing games texting or watching TV.. How may parents really know what their children do in a day? They ship them off to day care when they are too young to go to school. The teachers don't really help them in my opinion of getting them out into the sun as the computers have ruled their world now.. How many parents actually spend time with their kids when they are home, take them out on walks let them play on the swings in the parks. Watch they play catch run and just play. outside? People are killing their own immune systems.