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$120,000 disappears into thin air and no questions asked!
What you mean " I guess " ? It has been confirmed numerous time.
Above from Hal Bond email:"Jim Ferrier was the Treasurer during this period and when I contacted him he confirmed that he provided a second signature."
Numerous times? Seems to have been clandestine knowledge. OCA Treasurer was listed as Alice Laimer , during BT reign , on now abandoned OCA site. Apparently it was Jim Ferrier. Certainly not included in the 'independent' inquiry led by CFC President Van Dusen, and now VP von Keitz, and GTCL boss and OCA unofficial webmaster ( as well as an up and coming CFC guv) Zeromskis. Have you seen this report? It is a sham. Atravesty to anyone whom has any democratic values in their blood. We need a proper inquiry. Peter McKillop , who is very intelligent in navigating his way through various webs of bureaucracy, as well as being IT savvy enough, and DOGGEDLY DETERMINED TO GET THE TRUTH has committed to this. I commit to the same terms as his, but NOW. Hal has just emailed Jim Ferrier. It bounced back. chess.ca is where this should be happening perhaps. but oca members have been called pansies by u know who, thats k.s....i wish to lodge a complaint that could be turned into a motion of a censure or, hopefully of a lifetime banning of ,spraggett for life from the CFC. there's sufficient grounds: just ask Bond or Berry. But that is another issue. Right now he may be right. OCA members, which means any CFC members from Ontario are helpless , enslaved, and easily manipulated. Stand up.
It is a sham. Atravesty to anyone whom has any democratic values in their blood. We need a proper inquiry. Peter McKillop , who is very intelligent in navigating his way through various webs of bureaucracy, as well as being IT savvy enough, and DOGGEDLY DETERMINED TO GET THE TRUTH has committed to this. I commit to the same terms as his, but NOW. Hal has just emailed Jim Ferrier. It bounced back. chess.ca is where this should be happening perhaps. Stand up.
David, I'm on your side, but as far as I understand proper inquiry was conducted
by Trillium folks on May 9, 2008 which Hal Bond reported: " On May 9, 2008 I attended a two hour meeting in Toronto with President Thorvdarson at the request of Trillium Regional Co-ordinator John Pugsley and Inga Lubbock, who worked with Barry on the original application. Their concerns included alleged use of Trillium funds by the CFC, deliverables under the grant, and payment to an OCA board member for staffing costs.
Barry and I convinced the Trillium officials that none of the grant money was used by the CFC. Barry provided explanations for why the deliverables in York Region were less than expected. They questioned these explanations at some length before moving on.
We then discussed the staffing question. Both Pugsley and Lubbock were adamant that board members are ineligible for such funds. They would not have approved the grant had they known that such a move was contemplated. Ms. Lubbock further expressed disappointment that the grant did not result in employment for someone who resides in York Region. They also questioned the governance of the OCA and requested copies of the minutes of the meetings at which Barry was hired. Such minutes do not exist.
It's not clear to me what a second report was supposed to achieve. The Trillium folks told be point blank that they would not consider recovering the money."
Therefore, I tend to agree with Chris Mallon, that nothing productive can be achieved in this matter and "the matter effectively closed over a year ago."
Last edited by Ernest Klubis; Wednesday, 6th January, 2010, 12:54 PM.
A computer beat me in chess, but it was no match when it came to kickboxing
Numerous times? Seems to have been clandestine knowledge. OCA Treasurer was listed as Alice Laimer , during BT reign , on now abandoned OCA site. Apparently it was Jim Ferrier. Certainly not included in the 'independent' inquiry led by CFC President Van Dusen, and now VP von Keitz, and GTCL boss and OCA unofficial webmaster ( as well as an up and coming CFC guv) Zeromskis. Have you seen this report? It is a sham. Atravesty to anyone whom has any democratic values in their blood. We need a proper inquiry. Peter McKillop , who is very intelligent in navigating his way through various webs of bureaucracy, as well as being IT savvy enough, and DOGGEDLY DETERMINED TO GET THE TRUTH has committed to this. I commit to the same terms as his, but NOW. Hal has just emailed Jim Ferrier. It bounced back. chess.ca is where this should be happening perhaps. but oca members have been called pansies by u know who, thats k.s....i wish to lodge a complaint that could be turned into a motion of a censure or, hopefully of a lifetime banning of ,spraggett for life from the CFC. there's sufficient grounds: just ask Bond or Berry. But that is another issue. Right now he may be right. OCA members, which means any CFC members from Ontario are helpless , enslaved, and easily manipulated. Stand up.
David, I notice that your CFC membership (and therefore your OCA membership) has expired... Would you mind sharing your intentions on whether you intend to renew? In particular, I guess I would be interested in your reasons/views if you do not intend to renew...
I renewed just recently even though I could find little real value in membership in the CFC/OCA (I hesitate to lump them together, but the sum of the parts exceeds the value of the hole) - other than to be able to say "YES, I am a member and I want some answers and some changes"
Therefore, I tend to agree with Chris Mallon, that nothing productive can be achieved in this matter and "the matter effectively closed over a year ago."
Thanks!
Although someone had a good point that maybe we could get a volunteer to sort of package together all the information that is known into one place so this doesn't keep cropping up in the future.
Numerous times? Seems to have been clandestine knowledge. OCA Treasurer was listed as Alice Laimer , during BT reign , on now abandoned OCA site. Apparently it was Jim Ferrier.
David, are you the same David McTavish who lost Barry in the 2007 Ontario Open? (http://chess.ca/xtable.asp?TNum=200801020 ) If Yes, why have not you participated in the OCA AGM in Thunder Bay, where a treasurers transition took place? and discussed in length all OCA matters?
FYI:
"and GTCL boss and OCA unofficial webmaster ( as well as an up and coming CFC guv) Zeromskis"
I'm not a GTCL boss, only the Club Coordinator.
I'm not OCA unofficial webmaster. I had intentions. However, that sketch is only a sketch. The idea stopped due to ... (who cares :D
I'm not an up and coming CFC guv. I'm not taking your seat ;)
Re: $120,000 disappears into thin air and no questions asked!
The Trillium Fund people may not be interested in recovering the money which they granted to the OCA, but the OCA may be able to recover this money and put it to proper use, the use it was intended for in the first place. Thorvardson runs a consulting business; did he hire himself, or did he hire his business, on behalf of the OCA!? Those are questions which needs answering, and which I haven't seen discussed on this board. Thorvardson also has assets; he has a house, etc., which may be able to have a lien put against it, by a group pursuing justice, in order to apply pressure to extract the funds. If we can find areas of inquiry which were either not pursued by the Trillium Fund people when they met with Thorvardson and Hal Bond in 2008, or areas which were improperly or incompletely answered by Thorvardson, then we can widen the inquiry into further areas of potential violation. That is why the brainstorming which is happening on this board is so valuable.
I'm surprised by your response, Larry. It's old news only because no OCA director in the last 3 years has had the gumption to initiate a proper investigation into the matter. Trillium reportedly refuses to release to the OCA, the organization to which it granted $120k, copies of Thorvardson's interim reports. Hello ! Does this sound normal? What is Trillium concerned about or trying to hide?
... Because Spraggett posted it on his blog with the tabloid heading "$120,000 disappears into thin air and no questions asked!", it brings the subject back into the limelight. ...
I think Kevin's headline is a good one. Do you know what Thorvardson did to earn ($91,000 - $6,000 = ) $85,000? No? Sounds like thin air to me. And as for the "no questions" part of Kevin's headline, who the hell was asking questions? How can $85,000 get shelled out to someone and yet it was a surprise to the vice president? Weren't there any executive meetings during the Thorvardson years? Couldn't some responsible person have thought to say, "Jeepers, Barry, how's everything going with the Trillium project?", or, "Gee whiz, Mr. Treasurer, how much of that Trillium money is left in our account?"
It's apparent that the people involved would like to see this matter die without a thorough investigation. Why? Perhaps because the Trillium fiasco is a monument to their individual and collective failures to do their jobs responsibly.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
David, are you the same David McTavish who lost Barry in the 2007 Ontario Open? (http://chess.ca/xtable.asp?TNum=200801020 ) If Yes, why have not you participated in the OCA AGM in Thunder Bay, where a treasurers transition took place? and discussed in length all OCA matters?
FYI:
"and GTCL boss and OCA unofficial webmaster ( as well as an up and coming CFC guv) Zeromskis"
I'm not a GTCL boss, only the Club Coordinator.
I'm not OCA unofficial webmaster. I had intentions. However, that sketch is only a sketch. The idea stopped due to ... (who cares :D
I'm not an up and coming CFC guv. I'm not taking your seat ;)
Yes, that is correct, i did play Thorvardson in that Ont Op. 2007( seems like a decade ago for some reason :)) in Thunder Bay. I participated in no meetings. I had no knowledge of any of the OCA's business. I thought Trillium was a flower that i knew i shouldn't pick while walking the Bruce Trail.I did find wild onions buried. Intuition is strange that way, esp when hungry.Theyt tasted just like garlic. Must havebe healthy. Poor Schlief never ate any greens, or even had a glass of milk, after his teen years.Steaks only. A real carnivore , if there ever was. Was the annual OCA AGM held then? Talk to John Rutherford, who, similar to you for greater toronto, seems does all the organizing for Norhwestern Ont. for chess, still.Oops, just re-read your note , and OPTICALLY you are not part of Can OP in T.O. this year. But you have to admit u do the lion's share of the gruntwork, just like Chris, who'll probably read this, as well. Welll, at least there's an exchange of some ideas happenin', no? The Nadeaus, trying to help w your cfc store now that website has been finally decontaminated were, and still are, the chief north eastern ont cfc organizers, but i dont' remember them at that Ont. Op.
Barry was driving an Audi. A trunkload of Saiteks i think were avail but were not used. Wish they were 'cause incremental would have salted my game against Thorvardson.I think i flagged but was already lost, knocking the pieces over at the end. That ever happen to you in tourney? Games were sudden death in 60 minutes. . Passenger and tourney afficianado was none other than the witty, handsome but quirky Bob Gillanders.No collusion there, I hope anyways. Certainly not in their early round when Bob whipped Barry. A glaze was removed from his piercing Finnish eyes, albeit not for long.Then Barry whipped all of us townies. I can make excuses of being in the throes of a death-defying fam. situation, but will not elaborate. I just tanked too much in a dominant pos, savouring the victory prematurely.Rutherford intends to use this same time control if awarded CYCC 2011 He might know of something.I'll call him to post here, but i think arguments over classifications from past CYCC's almost gave him an ulcer many years ago, and he quit this board.
So there was an accountant that signed off on Thorvardson's paying himself the entire grant halfway through? Heres a snippet from Jim Ferrier's Treasurer report from linked u just provided.
The format of these accounting statements has been determined by our accountant, Marlene Sikkema, in accordance with industry practise for Non-Profit Organizations. The attached is our Draft Financial Statements, which will be subject to our Accountant’s review prior to the end of June.
was she contacted during your ' investigation'?
Last edited by David McTavish; Wednesday, 6th January, 2010, 01:49 PM.
Reason: accounting question in Egis's BT Trillium scandal report
David, I notice that your CFC membership (and therefore your OCA membership) has expired... Would you mind sharing your intentions on whether you intend to renew? In particular, I guess I would be interested in your reasons/views if you do not intend to renew...
I renewed just recently even though I could find little real value in membership in the CFC/OCA (I hesitate to lump them together, but the sum of the parts exceeds the value of the hole) - other than to be able to say "YES, I am a member and I want some answers and some changes"
Hi Kerry,
Yeah, thats a good question. I shud do the same. Many, many other chess-obssessed ( Carlsen says in recent Time interview that he is 'not obsessed by chess and doesn't even have a chessboard at home -- he "can play 10-15 games" blindfold like Nakamura {P.S. NAKA AT CorusA -go go go! }and "minimize them like windows using an ICC (or Playchess) interface -- Naka's words" ? -- probably -- Magnus also quips that chess will not make him mad, or atleast he doesn't plan on it in the near future:) savants do not have such a good sense of humour, usu.) Ontario players want to participate but this whole BT highwat robbery grates at them. Or paying 50$ is a problem, too.My last name is scottish, so i have deep pockets, but short arms.
Or another reason , purely selfishly, i'll prob rejoin is if Cuban IGM and former world jr ch Walter Arencibia Rodriguez shows again this year( he has students from Nadeau's Kapuskasing), so i can get another crack at him.
Yeah, thats a good question. I shud do the same. Many, many other chess-obssessed ( Carlsen says in recent Time interview that he is 'not obsessed by chess and doesn't even have a chessboard at home -- he "can play 10-15 games" blindfold like Nakamura {P.S. NAKA AT CorusA -go go go! }and "minimize them like windows using an ICC (or Playchess) interface -- Naka's words" ? -- probably -- Magnus also quips that chess will not make him mad, or atleast he doesn't plan on it in the near future:) savants do not have such a good sense of humour, usu.) Ontario players want to participate but this whole BT highwat robbery grates at them. Or paying 50$ is a problem, too.My last name is scottish, so i have deep pockets, but short arms.
Or another reason , purely selfishly, i'll prob rejoin is if Cuban IGM and former world jr ch Walter Arencibia Rodriguez shows again this year( he has students from Nadeau's Kapuskasing), so i can get another crack at him.
I must have been busted very early. But he moved at lightning speed, faster than a simul. My king was airy, no? Bravery, stupidity, or insanity?:)
I am Scottish too (my father was born in Glasgow) so I understand the grip you have on your money... hehe. I'll have to play over that game when I get a moment; right from the get-go I have to say you have stones to play the King's Gambit against a GM... :)
Re: $120,000 disappears into thin air and no questions asked!
I agree with Chris Mallon that the facts should all be collected together at one website. I would add that the website should have a timeline with links to the on-site documents. As further facts become available (even down to the $ amount of each cheque, payee, and who signed it), they should be added to the timeline. More context came to light after the publication (at the CFC forum) of the final OCA report less than a month ago, than in years of postings up to and including that time.
If BT was an employee of the OCA, then there would be a paper trail, including OCA's registration as an employer with (whatever its name is today) Revenue Canada. As many have speculated in these threads, more likely is that BT was a contractor, in which case, where's the contract? OK, maybe there's no contract, or only a spoken contract. That would be irregular, especially in this case, but oh well. I don't know what work was done (and others have put the same question), but we do know from Hal that BT thought it very important that some other organization had booked all the recreational space available in York for two years. Hmmm. How long does it take to find out there's no space for your projects? A week? A month? Then what's the excuse for paying somebody not on contract for two years if it was all a dead end? Having ignored the elephant in the room, just for a second, we can now look it in the corn-high eye: one thing we know for sure is that there could have been no worker-to-boss breakdown in communication!
I can't help harbouring the amusing thought that some settlement has been worked out in private. Negotiating the various interests is not rocket science. In that context, the OCA report would be one last release of steam before the matter faded into oblivion, with suitable shows of outrage. But I wonder if the emergence of two new players at the table, 1. disgruntled Ontario taxpayers; and 2. disgruntled OCA members (and ex-members) could upset this highly hypothetical balance?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. So I'll disown the amusing thought. Besides, no hypothetical balance has been disturbed because all we've seen is talk, Chesstalk.
Re: $120,000 disappears into thin air and no questions asked!
This matter is as "closed" as these other events are ( for example ) :
1. The Belfort CYCC trip, including the recklessness of the travel agency.
2. The use of OCA funds to subsidize the Greece WYCC trip that were dispersed unfairly.
3. The whereabouts of Peter Stockhausen and whether any chess connection is involved.
Closed I guess would mean the people involved were either unethical or ineffective ( hard to know there is no transparency ) and they just want the situation to go away. In terms of being fair and resolution there is nothing.
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Wednesday, 6th January, 2010, 10:39 PM.
Reason: Condensed version
ps The sad part are there are some good people involved in specific chess projects and once upon a time I believed somewhat in the idea of the CFC being the Canadian chess collective and we should look to be partners in positive chess activities. But honestly with the secretive, manipulative ways of the CFC/OCA and the fact so many projects have been hijacked by highly political often illogical people it certainly has not been a partnership at all. One might ask how did this happen, there are a few clues ( for example, no successful business would ever hire just people with government backgrounds ).
Duncan, the sad part is that you with your superior organizational skills doing nothing for Canadian chess. How many times we BEGGED you on the knees to show us THE WAY? Frank Dixon displayed here his numerous projects for chess and golf. I see nothing from you beside complains.
A computer beat me in chess, but it was no match when it came to kickboxing
... I can't help harbouring the amusing thought that some settlement has been worked out in private. ...
Very interesting. And since settlements of this type very often contain restrictions with respect to what information can be publicized, this could explain Trillium's reported reluctance to release Thorvardson's interim reports to the OCA (assuming Thorvardson submitted any interim reports - there's another possibility >> BT didn't comply with interim reporting provisions of the agreement and Trillium was loathe to be perceived as tacitly approving of these instances of non-compliance because they failed to follow up).
By the way, Jonathan, what did you do with your beard and moustaches?
Last edited by Peter McKillop; Wednesday, 6th January, 2010, 06:33 PM.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Re: $120,000 disappears into thin air and no questions asked!
[QUOTE=Peter McKillop;18312]Very interesting. And since settlements of this type very often contain restrictions with respect to what information can be publicized, this could explain Trillium's reported reluctance to release Thorvardson's interim reports to the OCA (assuming Thorvardson submitted any interim reports).
And so, after Barry deflowered Pugsley, Lubbock and Gladstone; they decided to split the bill. Stipulated moratorium by all, though.
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