The One and Only Climate Change thread...

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  • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

    Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
    Hopefully you realize that "god" gave man the ability to think. Science and ''god" are very compatible, don't you agree.
    Totally disagree. Science proves that man evolve from primates while "god" says he made Adam from clay and Eve from Adam's rib according to his book that sold copies than "Harry Potter".
    A computer beat me in chess, but it was no match when it came to kickboxing

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    • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

      Originally posted by Ernest Klubis View Post
      Well, Prime Minister Harper and President Obama believe in "god" in addition to 80% of Canadians and Americans. Do you call them silly too?
      I think it is perfectly possible for someone to be rational and yet believe in "god". By contrast I think it is impossible in this day and age for a rational person not to accept the observed fact of evolution by natural selection, nor the observed fact of climate change.

      "God" is not always a binary either/or concept, even in the Christian religion. If you think it is then I suggest you research, for example, the work of the medieval theologian Thomas Aquinas, which is much more subtle and nuanced than that simple minded proposition.

      Now Aquinas was sainted by a later pope, a recognition that the Catholic church accepts to this day, so presumably his theology was at least approved by the church of the day (presuming they understood it at all). But his concept of "god" rises above such simple binary concepts as "exists" or "does not exist".

      Indeed there is a theological argument in Catholicism that holds that to say that god "exists" is idolatry, because God transcends all human concepts, including those of "existence" or "non existence". The Hindus agree, but of course this nuanced position in Catholicism has been almost entirely suppressed by the establishment and you really have to dig to even find out about it.

      Personally I am not a believer in "god", nor am I an atheist or a so-called "agnostic", but I accept it is possible for a rational person to take any of these positions and not thereby become irrational.

      But, I do think Harper is rather silly and believes in an irrational economic theory, much to to his (and our) detriment. To give him credit he is also rather shrewd and has done a few things right in response to the economic crises, mostly because he was forced to out of political necessity. So he is, at least, not a complete ideologue and at least partly in contact with reality. But I would certainly call him silly since his economic beliefs are self contradictory.

      Comment


      • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

        Spectacular volcano picures; stunning...

        http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/201...llajokull.html

        Comment


        • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

          Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
          I just thought of a possible link between global warming and the recent activity in Iceland.

          Eyjaffajollajhokul and Katla (a much larger, more exposive volcano on the scale of Pinatubo) are both sitting underneath a massive glacier. Like all glaciers in the north, this one has experienced massive ice loss over the last number of years.
          Thanks for the link. I'm currently playing someone in Iceland so I'll ask him about the effect he's seeing. I'm a pawn up but don't think it's enough to win the ending. Too bad, so sad.

          Which reminds me of an old joke I always liked.

          A kid writes home to his father from university.

          No mon.
          No Fun,
          Your son.

          The father writes back.

          Too bad,
          So sad,
          Your dad.

          Almost too corny...
          Gary Ruben
          CC - IA and SIM

          Comment


          • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

            Severe weather; tornadoes galore in US south...

            Real time-radar maps...
            http://weather.unisys.com/radar/rad_us_loop.html
            Reports...
            http://www.accuweather.com/

            Comment


            • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

              Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
              Severe weather; tornadoes galore in US south...
              Seem to get lots of them many years. I've watched stuff on TV filmed by the tornado or maybe hurricane chasers. Spectacular stuff.

              I seem to recall last year was a pretty quiet hurricane season. They often shut down the offshore oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico.

              I've been reading about the explosion on an offshore rig and the amount of oil escaping daily. I would imagine it will take awhile to plug that one. I imagine the oil will wash up onshore somewhere.

              They have a pretty good firm in the U.S. which does that kind of work. Boots and Coots. They've been fighting blowouts for decades. If they aren't the best, I can't tell you who is.

              I guess U.S. offshore drilling will be increasing. Going from memory, I think the U.S. is using around 19 or 20 million barrels of oil a day (42 gallons to the barrel) and they produce around 10 million. Of course, they've had some nice finds relatively recently both in the U.S. and Canada.
              Gary Ruben
              CC - IA and SIM

              Comment


              • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
                Paul, thanks for answering my question in the affirmative that rainforests would absorb more CO2 than the same area of ocean surface (and even saying that the absorption would be "much more"). This give my idea at least some credibility.

                Your questions would have to be answered by engineers. I'm just the idea person. As for South America, good luck with all that. You'll have to kill lots of people to keep the rainforests there much longer.
                Just got the figure last night: 3,000 acres PER HOUR of rainforest disappearing. An area the size OF THE STATE OF TEXAS every year.

                Paul, I hope the "solutions" you've promised addresses this. Somehow we need to start CREATING some rainforest to replace what's disappearing.
                Only the rushing is heard...
                Onward flies the bird.

                Comment


                • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                  Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
                  I just thought of a possible link between global warming and the recent activity in Iceland.
                  My opponent in Iceland is taking 30 days vacation time so I guess the volcano is more than an inconvenience. It's my last game in that event.

                  I still get invitations. Got one for a title tournament to celebrate the 200th Anniverary of the Argentine independence. It's for the B section which isn't really a problem. The problem is they are proposing only category 8 and I like to play category 9 to 11. Of course, a higher rated Canadian player got an invite for the A section.

                  I think I'll wait for an invitation where they appreciate me more. :)

                  I saw the U.S. storm pictures on the late news yesterday. Really widespread they were saying.
                  Gary Ruben
                  CC - IA and SIM

                  Comment


                  • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                    Debris (pieces of houses, etc.) on weather radar from Saturdays tornado (1 mile wide, 180 mile track). Total of 55 tornadoes in US on Saturday...

                    http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/new...gs-miracle.asp

                    Comment


                    • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                      Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
                      Debris (pieces of houses, etc.) on weather radar from Saturdays tornado (1 mile wide, 180 mile track). Total of 55 tornadoes in US on Saturday...
                      I saw more of that on news channels early this morning. Some of the damage looked like it could have been caused by a large earthquake.

                      There has been heavy earthquake activity this year and I expect more unusual weather than in other years.

                      That oil rig blowout offshore Lousianna is a major problem. It's pouring (forget them trying to minimze it by calling it leaking) out around 1,000 barrels or oil a day. I don't know what they consider a large flow in the offshore wells, but I'm happy when I hear a company in which I have shares puts an oil well on pump at 150 to 200 barrels a day.

                      From what I heard on TV it sounds like they get one shot at plugging it the fast way. Probably subs trying to turn off valves about a mile down. If they miss they have to drill a relief well and the estimate on TV was 5 weeks for that.
                      Gary Ruben
                      CC - IA and SIM

                      Comment


                      • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                        Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                        I saw more of that on news channels early this morning. Some of the damage looked like it could have been caused by a large earthquake.

                        There has been heavy earthquake activity this year and I expect more unusual weather than in other years.

                        That oil rig blowout offshore Lousianna is a major problem. It's pouring (forget them trying to minimze it by calling it leaking) out around 1,000 barrels or oil a day. I don't know what they consider a large flow in the offshore wells, but I'm happy when I hear a company in which I have shares puts an oil well on pump at 150 to 200 barrels a day.

                        From what I heard on TV it sounds like they get one shot at plugging it the fast way. Probably subs trying to turn off valves about a mile down. If they miss they have to drill a relief well and the estimate on TV was 5 weeks for that.
                        Isn't the timing of this amazing? Just weeks after Obama gives in and announces he'll allow offshore drilling off the east coast. I wonder if he'll rescind that now?

                        Drill, baby, drill!

                        If this turns into a Valdez-scale disaster, which oil company or companies will have to pay damages?
                        Only the rushing is heard...
                        Onward flies the bird.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                          Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
                          Isn't the timing of this amazing? Just weeks after Obama gives in and announces he'll allow offshore drilling off the east coast. I wonder if he'll rescind that now?

                          Drill, baby, drill!

                          If this turns into a Valdez-scale disaster, which oil company or companies will have to pay damages?
                          Well, there was a spill like that offshore Australia some months ago. I'm not sure how long it took to cap it but seem to recall it was significant.

                          I don't think such spills are rare.

                          I doubt Obama will change his mind about he offshore drilling. The U.S. needs oil and you have to drill where the oil is and not where it isn't. Probably what comes from out tar sands will look a lot better.

                          The Ocean Ranger oil rig went under in a storm off the coast of Newfoundland a few years back. 84 people died.
                          Gary Ruben
                          CC - IA and SIM

                          Comment


                          • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                            Every 33 feet of water is equivalent to 1 atmosphere of pressure (as all scuba divers know). So 1 mile or about 5000 feet is 5000/33 = 152 atmospheres or so; tremendous pressures.

                            Is the oil that leaks out all coming to the surface or is some of it compressed so much that it stays at the ocean floor and spreads out there?

                            Today I think the plan is to convert the surface oil to atmospheric gases and crud that sinks by burning it? BP says that they are drilling the second well anyway even it they manage to seal off the leak. If they cannot stop the leak that is 1000 barrels/day x 90+ days or 100,000 barrels total. Seens like a huge amount, I think that each tanker truck on the highway can carry about 200 barrels or so.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                              Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
                              Every 33 feet of water is equivalent to 1 atmosphere of pressure (as all scuba divers know). So 1 mile or about 5000 feet is 5000/33 = 152 atmospheres or so; tremendous pressures.

                              Is the oil that leaks out all coming to the surface or is some of it compressed so much that it stays at the ocean floor and spreads out there?
                              I am pretty sure that oil is lighter than water. :) The water will be under the same pressure as the oil at any given depth so the pressure will not keep the oil down below the surface unless it is heavier which it is not.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                                Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
                                Every 33 feet of water is equivalent to 1 atmosphere of pressure (as all scuba divers know). So 1 mile or about 5000 feet is 5000/33 = 152 atmospheres or so; tremendous pressures.

                                Is the oil that leaks out all coming to the surface or is some of it compressed so much that it stays at the ocean floor and spreads out there?

                                Today I think the plan is to convert the surface oil to atmospheric gases and crud that sinks by burning it? BP says that they are drilling the second well anyway even it they manage to seal off the leak. If they cannot stop the leak that is 1000 barrels/day x 90+ days or 100,000 barrels total. Seens like a huge amount, I think that each tanker truck on the highway can carry about 200 barrels or so.
                                For those of you who don't know and are following this, an atmosphere of pressure is atmospheric pressure. The weight of a column of air above a vacuum. The amount of pressure on you as you go about your tasks. In this area it's around 14.6 PSIG ( pounds per square inch gauge). To get the pressure you multiply the 152 atmospheres by 14.6.

                                I was reading the oil is rising like an ice cream cone.. Small at the bottom and spreading out as it reaches the surface. I'd suppose in this case much of the oil is lighter than water and floats.

                                We have been told the depth of the water. That's where the turnoff (Blowout protector) sits and where they have to drill the relief well. What we don't know is how deep down the pipe broke off. It may only be a fraction of the depth to the ocean floor. I also don't know what the pressure is behind the oil which is coming out. As an example, I was reading a press release from one company in which I invest where they are hitting wells with over 2,100 PSI (they don't say if its gauge or atmosphere) and that's on land in Alberta. Of course, you appreciate the effects of Boyles Law when you take into consideration the flow. I haven't heard the pressure in that well blowout but assume the 1,000 barrels a day is after correction factors are added. I also don't know the viscosity of the oil.

                                I know the numbers sound large and you slipped in an extra 10,000 barrels with a multiplication rounding :) but even those numbers are relatively small. A supertanker holds around 2,000,000 barrels of oil. Some more, some less.

                                The relief well is another matter. I think there is a law in the U.S. that they have to drill a relief well in the same season they drill the well. I also think the industry was trying to get the administration to drop that requirement. They want to drill in the Beaufort from what I was reading and the season isn't very long. Still, I doubt that requirement will be dropped now.

                                Anyhow, if I've got some errors in this feel free to correct them.
                                Gary Ruben
                                CC - IA and SIM

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