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Animal lovers should not watch this video as it is pretty graphic. The victim of the windmill is a vulture... which I believe may be an endangered species.
It is interesting that environmental standards and assessments for wind turbines seem to be much more relaxed than for other types of power generation facilities.
It is interesting that environmental standards and assessments for wind turbines seem to be much more relaxed than for other types of power generation facilities.
Vladimir Drkulec
I came across a reference the other day to this issue related to wind power:
Shortages could occur for chips, solar panels, Toyotas, iPad 2s, etc. due to the Japan quake...
This thread has become too long for my old computer and slows it. Some kind of scripting error. Failing a new thread, I probably won't be adding my comments as often.
Sometimes there are non-obvious consequences to some actions/activities...
I knew there were more hidden costs associated with wind power beyond the obvious ones. As Paul Bonham reminds us, there is no such thing as a free lunch. I am surprised that it took this long for the story to finally emerge. Where is Elizabeth May on this issue? Is the green party really green? If they are, they should be coming out against wind turbines.
Climate progress is a site controlled by the same people who gave us climategate or at least were revealed in all their glory by the leaking of those emails. How is that search for the real criminals coming along?
Who do you think is more influential, climate progress or Fox News? I would guess Fox News if you look at the ratings. They are pounding CNN, MSNBC and all the other liberal media collectively by a pretty good margin. In part, this is because no one trusts the liberal media to tell the real story on important issues like climate change and the failings of liberal politicians and their policies. It took the mainstream media weeks to acknowledge the significance of the climategate scandal. Most people don't want their truth filtered through the biased liberal media.
What do you have to say about the environmental devastation in Mongolia as a result of "clean" wind energy?
Anyone (like Vlad) can find links to this stuff and post them to try to trick people into thinking that knowledge (thought) is behind the post; unlike Vlad I understand this stuff as Fred does (aside: I worked for Ontario Hydro for a summer job in 3rd year university working on fortran code simulating bidirectional fueling, cadmium control rod cooling, and boron injection shut-down systems for Candu reactor systems, and simulating LOCA (loss of coolant accidents)...cadmium and boron have high neutron cross sections and thus scavenge the slow neutrons taking the reactor sub-critical...
Vlad, the more you post the sillier you look...please stop making stuff up...HTH...
Paul, are you ever going to stop ad hominen attacks on Vlad and just stick to your agenda? Which is, apparently, to advertise your credentials and try getting everyone to think that you are some sort of eminent scientist.
Your efforts to become an eminent scientist may be creditable, but why go overboard with broadcasting it? When you've written an original paper or two that puts forth some new idea(s), then you've done something. Until then, you're just another student, which as I say, is creditable... and nothing more. So just ease off with the self-promotion. Believe it or not, I'm trying to give you good advice. You have severely damaged yourself in this thread, even if your aims are altruistic (which even when you claim it, comes across as bs).
I'm sorry to tell you that I personally have learned more from Vlad than from you on this thread. I've learned that AGW is as much a political movement as it is a scientific theory. It frustrates you that Vlad is exposing this part of it. Your frustration is coming through in spades.
I remember when you started posting on this topic and I posted back, warning you that there was this person Vlad who would be directly challenging your assertions. I actually thought then that Vlad would be the hothead and you would be the calm cool dispenser of scientific information. It turned out the opposite. You are looking quite the fool with your Facebook stalking of Vlad and your constant denigration of his education.
Quite a while back, you criticized my attacks on Jean Hebert, and asked what I was trying to accomplish (when it should have been obvious), yet here you are doing crap I wouldn't touch. Not once did I Google information on Jean Hebert's background to try and discredit him as a person. I very effectively used his own arguments against him, and that is the true method of debating. I may have called him a name or two along the way, but hey, nobody's perfect.
One last thing: I've worked at several Fortune 500 corporations in the U.S. (Microsoft, Banta Corp., Thompson Financial, Northrup Grumman to name a few), and I've been part of their dealings with university undergraduate and graduate interns. When you write you "worked on" Fortran software as a 3rd year university student at Ontario Hydro, and then you list what the software did, I can assure readers that you had NOTHING TO DO with the workings of that software. Most likely you ran some automated or manual tests. If Ontario Hydro actually had you modifying that software in any way, please readers, sell your Ontario Hydro bonds immediately and move away from the power plant!!! Don't be fooled into thinking Paul Beckwith was some sort of genius or prodigy, as he so "transparently" implies. He was a student intern, nothing more. Did he learn how the software works? Perhaps... big whoopdee doo. If and when he can claim his name to a patent (as I can -- and no, Bob Gillanders, it isn't Cornerstone, LOL!), then we can give him some credit.
I personally give Vlad credit for avoiding tit-for-tat ad hominen attacks and for being able to basically refute pretty much everything that has been thrown his way. That doesn't mean I totally accept his viewpoint. I do think that if you strip away all the political overtones, all the emotional rhetoric, AGW is valid. But there is little or nothing to be done about it. So why even have this thread.... well, because Mr. Beckwith wants it, and not because he wants to save any of your asses.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
You just made my morning; I laughed so hard I almost spilled my coffee. The triumvirate of climate denial bots (aka denialbots) is super funny funny humor with SNR = 0
Thanks for the IESO link; it shows real-time demand and the going wholesale price. You are looking at the price in the middle of the night, of course it is the lowest point of the day.
For a self described Sooper Genius (TM) you seem to have some problems with reading comprehension. While the current price does appear on that page it also shows the weighted average price for the year to date and the weighted average price for March. Those are the figures that I was looking at.
You also ignore all the other charges the consumer pays, like taxes, distibution fees to pay for all the nuclear plants, etc...
If you think that distribution fees pay for all the nuclear plants then you really don't understand what distribution fees are. When discussing the differences in wholesale prices paid to so called green energy producers and other energy producers, of course I ignore all the other charges that the consumer pays. That is not the topic under discussion but since you brought it up all of those charges are part of the green/left wing agenda to drive up the cost of energy.
Of course a premium must be paid to kickstart an new industry;
A premium must be paid to political allies who greased the wheels of progress by making political donations.
You are no doubt referring to the situation where an innovative competitor comes out with a revolutionary new product and enjoys a premium price because having the latest cool thing is something that certain segments of the market enjoys. In the early stages of market development a competitor can do that because the factory has all it can do to just try to keep up with demand. Smart competitors quickly drop the price because artificially high prices encourages competitors and substitutes to enter the market.
Solar power and wind power are not revolutionary new products. They have been around for a long time. They are a mature industry. Government distortion of the market has stopped them from innovating and enjoying the free fall in costs that most other technology driven industries have enjoyed. Your so called necessary subsidies are hurting the industry and causing it to lag behind and embrace inefficiency. The problem is that you can only defy economic reality for so long. Eventually reality catches up.
In the 1980s I recall reading in Fortune magazine an article which said that solar power is an economical alternative to oil at $20 per barrel. Twenty five years later it can't compete with oil even at today's prices. Why not? Government subsidies have kept them from having any incentive to innovate and allowed them to stagnate and putrify.
George Guilder wrote an excellent book around 1990 called the Microcosm which described the consequences of Moore's law on society and in particular technology industries. I understand that Guilder is one of your climate progress enemies because he had the audacity to oppose your religious hysteria.
and you know that premium gets phased out as the technology gets firmly established.
As long as it depends on governments it will never get firmly established. As currently structured the industries cannot outcompete oil at $400 a barrel. Central planning always fails. Your cabal is a big fan of central planning.
As a student of business you may have studied such things. Before the floating rates, the Ontario rate was 5.6 cents/kWh but the consumers paid about 12 or 13 cents per kWh (divide your total electrical bill by kWh used to get this rate). So 80 cents compared to 12 or 13 is about 6.1 - 6.5; you are grossly exaggerating your claims to 20-27x.
Your lack of understanding is coming through again. Why would I be comparing the wholesale rate paid to producers of solar and wind power to the retail rate paid by consumers? The valid comparison is to the wholesale rate paid to other producers of electricity. The fact that you paid 20 to 27 times the wholesale price for electricity does not reduce any of the other costs but merely increases them because some of them (taxes in particular) are in proportion to your total bill.
Of course the 12-13 cents ignores the externalities, like the subsidies and underwriting that the nuclear industry got to build and insure the nuclear plants, the fossil fuel air pollution and particulates that reduce the health of Canadians and the emissions that warm our planet. So you are wrong...
What about the externalities of green power? How many poisoned Mongolians and dead landscapes resembling Mordor are acceptable to give you your endless blight of overpriced windmills on the landscape?
They are holding hearings on health effects of wind farms and the company providing experts to counteract any sentiment for restrictions is Suncor which is getting into the wind turbine business apparently to double down its bets in the oil patch. Apparently it is the environmentalists who are in bed with big oil. LOL!
Paul, are you ever going to stop ad hominen attacks on Vlad and just stick to your agenda? Which is, apparently, to advertise your credentials and try getting everyone to think that you are some sort of eminent scientist.
He is probably incapable of stopping the attacks. Disagreeing with him is an attack on his personal and religious dogmas. Blowback is to be expected when you are pressing on those buttons. Paul is not the first narcissist that I have engaged in this or other debates.
Your efforts to become an eminent scientist may be creditable, but why go overboard with broadcasting it? When you've written an original paper or two that puts forth some new idea(s), then you've done something. Until then, you're just another student, which as I say, is creditable... and nothing more. So just ease off with the self-promotion. Believe it or not, I'm trying to give you good advice. You have severely damaged yourself in this thread, even if your aims are altruistic (which even when you claim it, comes across as bs).
He is hoping to make a living in this field. If my view, which is probably the majority view, prevails there won't be any field to make a living in.
I'm sorry to tell you that I personally have learned more from Vlad than from you on this thread. I've learned that AGW is as much a political movement as it is a scientific theory. It frustrates you that Vlad is exposing this part of it. Your frustration is coming through in spades.
Well, I can be much more frustrating than I am displaying here. There is no need for that here, though.
I remember when you started posting on this topic and I posted back, warning you that there was this person Vlad who would be directly challenging your assertions. I actually thought then that Vlad would be the hothead and you would be the calm cool dispenser of scientific information. It turned out the opposite. You are looking quite the fool with your Facebook stalking of Vlad and your constant denigration of his education.
One uses the tools that one has available to him. Thankfully he hasn't gone to the lengths that some other AGW true believers have in the past.
Quite a while back, you criticized my attacks on Jean Hebert, and asked what I was trying to accomplish (when it should have been obvious), yet here you are doing crap I wouldn't touch. Not once did I Google information on Jean Hebert's background to try and discredit him as a person. I very effectively used his own arguments against him, and that is the true method of debating. I may have called him a name or two along the way, but hey, nobody's perfect.
One last thing: I've worked at several Fortune 500 corporations in the U.S. (Microsoft, Banta Corp., Thompson Financial, Northrup Grumman to name a few), and I've been part of their dealings with university undergraduate and graduate interns. When you write you "worked on" Fortran software as a 3rd year university student at Ontario Hydro, and then you list what the software did, I can assure readers that you had NOTHING TO DO with the workings of that software. Most likely you ran some automated or manual tests. If Ontario Hydro actually had you modifying that software in any way, please readers, sell your Ontario Hydro bonds immediately and move away from the power plant!!! Don't be fooled into thinking Paul Beckwith was some sort of genius or prodigy, as he so "transparently" implies.
The term of art is Sooper Genius (TM).
He was a student intern, nothing more. Did he learn how the software works? Perhaps... big whoopdee doo. If and when he can claim his name to a patent (as I can -- and no, Bob Gillanders, it isn't Cornerstone, LOL!), then we can give him some credit.
I personally give Vlad credit for avoiding tit-for-tat ad hominen attacks and for being able to basically refute pretty much everything that has been thrown his way. That doesn't mean I totally accept his viewpoint. I do think that if you strip away all the political overtones, all the emotional rhetoric, AGW is valid. But there is little or nothing to be done about it. So why even have this thread.... well, because Mr. Beckwith wants it, and not because he wants to save any of your asses.
The fact that you believe AGW is valid does not threaten me in any way. Faced with irrefutable proof from objective sources that AGW is valid, I could be turned to that view. The difference between Paul Beckwith and myself in this debate is that I am not threatened by someone holding a different view than my own so that I have no need to descend into negative attacks. I believe in "live and learn" and "live and let live".
My own suspicion is that we will see cooling and then without missing a beat the AGW crowd will become the AGC crowd as they were in the not too distant past. I will continue to poke fun at them and remind them of the recent global warming hysteria.
This thread has become too long for my old computer and slows it. Some kind of scripting error. Failing a new thread, I probably won't be adding my comments as often.
Gary - I know a lot of great stuff...
Add some memory or buy a new computer or update your computer. We'll miss you. Well Paul Beckwith won't miss you...
I would miss Gary, or Paul Bonham or Vlad; they make conversing on this site very interesting and toughen up the psyche...although in my opinion they take things a little too personally/emotionally and could lighten up a little...
As I said earlier, the SNR = 0 for the triumvirate of climate denialbots. The reason that electricity rates have risen in Ontario is due to nuclear and gas costs/subsidies/debt as can be seen from:
Faceless Vlad will not understand this; since he may or may not have a business degree; he has not told us so we have to guess. Which is it, was it a two year degree or a four year one, and where was it done? People want to know if you have had any education in science, climate change, or other...
Going to someone's home page on Facebook once for 5 minutes is not a crime as far as I know; when someone makes claims it can help one figure out what the basis of these claims are. Especially when one has had a conversation on chesstalk for 1.5 years or so with that person; doesn't that count as somewhat knowing the person? And then telling that person you visited; and offering them to friend you and visit your page. One can adjust the settings in facebook and make the homepage private if one wants to.
Bonham would probably be interested to know that I have 2 patents, and numerous peer reviewed scientific papers published, use Google Scholar and go to the US patent office to check; it is not "stalking". Do you want to see my resume; or quiz me on the nuclear job? Speaking of jobs, what do you think an employer does when checking your background, do they get accused of "stalking"? This would be an entirely different and interesting discussion to have. Never put anything on facebook that you do not expect the entire world to see.
Gee, the triumvirate climate denial-bots are very high maintenance. Maybe we should try a posting-cap of 3-4 postings each per week. We could even do a cap and trade, so if one of you 3 posted 8 times the other two would be limited to 4, or something like that (it is still 3 times higher than my limit)...
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