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The game was not fide rated it was play in the 1700-2000 section .
OK, so in that case the FQE rules apply, which seem to state that an analog clock can be allowed.
Is there anything in the FQE rules about how equipment is chosen? I remember something from the old CFC rules about that. Generally it was worded in such a way that if you weren't present at the start of the game you couldn't complain about the equipment unless it was actually somehow defective.
I think it would be nice if Fide made increments mandatory just so they could abolish 10.2
It goes to that direction: the main FIDE tournaments are with increments. It is up to organizers to choose a time control from provided "standards" (90/40+30min & +30s/move; 90min & 30sec/move; or 2h/40+1h/20+30min etc)
If you show up late, you get what you get. If you want to insist on your clock, pieces... show up on time.
I have seen some horrendous arguments over clocks and what people seem to forget is that a clock is simply a device to prevent Sitzfleisch. As long as both players use the same clock, the difference is marginal.
For those who may be interested, the absolute worst argument happened in Vancouver in the early days of digital clocks. In those days they didn't have flags. Player one plays his fortieth move, presses his clock and the remaining time shows as 00.00 His opponent claims that no time remains and claims a win on time. Player one claims that he has made his moves in exactly the allotted time. The debate, the appeals committee etc. etc. went on for about an hour with much discussion of the internal workings of the clock, whether 00.00 might mean 00.00.1 rounded down or up etc... I think Henry Chiu was the director and I am sure it is burned in his memory. Having lead you this far I am ashamed to admit that I cannot recall which way the decision went. So if Henry is out there...
If you show up late, you get what you get. If you want to insist on your clock, pieces... show up on time.
Well I believe that a clearly defective clock would be replaced whenever that was discovered. Isn't a clock that cannot do increments in a tournament where the only allowed time control involves increments defective?
I mean it may work perfectly well but if it cannot do increments it is as defective for that purpose as your run of the mill alarm clock would be.
I have nothing against this rule, although I kind of miss the days with the old analog clocks that didn't have increments. I will always associate the quite "ticking" sound that they made with chess tournaments.
With increments, very few experienced blitz players would get flagged in a tournament game. I am a bit of a time pressure addict because I know that I can play decent moves with seconds on my clock, and I will keep getting time added, which will prevent me from getting flagged.
The few times that I've seen a player lose on time, they usually have a lost or worse position. There is something to be said for the finality and pressure that no increments put on a player...
If they had to use the Analog why not just calculate how much 30 sec x40 moves would be (bare minimum assuming you used 30sec each time) and just add it to both clocks for the First time control.
I think that may have at least been something.
I feel if the rule stated that digital clocks should be used then the organizers should have had some back up digital clocks available for such a problem,
considering that Strategy games has a store in Montreal that does not seem to be too big a problem.
I have played in several EOCA events where the default time controls were G/90 + 30sec increments, but if only an analog clock was available, then time controls were either 30/90 + G/30 or G/120. These time controls were explained prior to the start of the game.
If the options are clearly declared by the organizers prior to the start of the tournament, then I believe that keeping the analog clock in play is the correct decision.
Unfortunately I don’t have the time to follow all the comments on ChessTalk, but in this case I decided to take few minutes to clarify few things.
1) I was the REF who took the initial decision to let the player START the game with an ANALOG clock (obviously - I have no idea how much effort was put in finding a digital clock).
2) I was the one who refused def. to change clocks AFTER THE GAME has started.
The reason is simple - even though Digital clocks are more popular for the good reasons, the FQE rule is still clear - ANALOG clocks are still good to use until next September. Therefore, since one of the players came late (a minute late is a minute late), I don’t think he was entitled to request to stop the game and to change clocks only because he doesn't LIKE to play with analog. I do assume all the consequences of my decision, whether players agree or don't with it...
As you know, refs are there not to be popular but to follow the rules and keep it fair. I believe that I took the right decision in this case.
The reason is simple - even though Digital clocks are more popular for the good reasons, the FQE rule is still clear - ANALOG clocks are still good to use until next September.
Given the details as you describe them, it was the correct decision then.
OK, so in that case the FQE rules apply, which seem to state that an analog clock can be allowed.
Is there anything in the FQE rules about how equipment is chosen? I remember something from the old CFC rules about that. Generally it was worded in such a way that if you weren't present at the start of the game you couldn't complain about the equipment unless it was actually somehow defective.
The current CFC rule is : 2.26 The standards of chess equipment of FIDE tournaments are applicable also to CFC tournaments. Unless the organisers have provided standard equipment or designated preferred equipment for all players, Black has his choice of any equipment conforming to these standards. If Black is absent when the round begins and White arrives first, White has the choice. The opponent may not challenge the choice as not conforming unless he can provide or obtain equipment which does conform, or conforms more nearly to these standards. If neither player has standard equipment, the game shall be played using the one that is closest to the standard. A game not played because neither player has any equipment shall be scored as zero for both players and shall not be rated. In a Swiss tournament, the colour assigned for this game does not count and the players are not considered to have been paired together. Questionable cases are left to the discretion of the arbiter whose decision shall be final.
FQE rules are more strict for late players because only grossly non-standard equipment can be challenged. As stated elsewhere in this thread, analog clocks are still legal under FQE rules and cannot be considered grossly non-standard. The intent of the FQE rule ( I was the chair of the committee that proposed this rule) is that a late player must have less rights then a player who is on time. In tournaments in which the players brings their own pieces, the setup of a late player is noisy and disturbs the other players.
Unfortunately I don’t have the time to follow all the comments on ChessTalk, but in this case I decided to take few minutes to clarify few things.
1) I was the REF who took the initial decision to let the player START the game with an ANALOG clock (obviously - I have no idea how much effort was put in finding a digital clock).
2) I was the one who refused def. to change clocks AFTER THE GAME has started.
The reason is simple - even though Digital clocks are more popular for the good reasons, the FQE rule is still clear - ANALOG clocks are still good to use until next September. Therefore, since one of the players came late (a minute late is a minute late), I don’t think he was entitled to request to stop the game and to change clocks only because he doesn't LIKE to play with analog. I do assume all the consequences of my decision, whether players agree or don't with it...
As you know, refs are there not to be popular but to follow the rules and keep it fair. I believe that I took the right decision in this case.
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