What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

[Kevin Pacey]

In an attempt to see how many chesstalk readers, if pressed, would agree with Gary Ruben that the French is a poor choice, this poll asks what 1.e4 defence is objectively best, in each respondent's opinion, for a lower rated player to upset a 2500+ player.

[Ernest Klubis]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

Only Hugh Brodie with his colossus database can give you a definite answer. I will be surprised to see a recent game where a 2500+ player who plays 1.e4 gets a "slightly" weaker position in the opening. They know it upside down and you will be lucky to get an even position for Black, no matter what opening you choose.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

I voted for the Najdorf even though the Winawer is close to my heart. The Winawer was good for upsetting some of the world's (former) best players (e.g. Kasparov, and the late Fischer), but it is often difficult to handle since it is normally positionally sharp. The Najdorf is more tactical, and gives White more fatal traps to fall into. The Najdorf has the highest Black win percentage score at top levels in my largest database.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

its not so much the opening its how well you know it, if you study DVDs, Yearbooks, Informant games and are steeped in an opening, are prepared for its tactics and strategy and especially if you are prepared for the transition to the endgame and to play the endgame well then you might upset a much higher rated player

so a complicated opening that should have chances for black is best, except the Sicillian takes a lot of time to study the theory, the French is more manageable in terms of time required & resulting chances of upsets

[Ernest Klubis]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

The Najdorf has the highest Black win percentage score at top levels in my largest database.

In how many Najdorf games Black had better position in the opening? Point is, opening will not beat the GM, even if you get slightly better position in the opening, but strategy, tactics and knowledge of the endgame after the opening.

[Lucas Davies]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

Caro-Kann, obviously...

[Gary Ruben]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

Caro-Kann, obviously...

I'm working on a game which completely busts a known line of the Caro-Kann after black's move 6, in that line. When it's finished I'll post the game, provided I win. I don't post my loses. We're only at move 22, he's asked for a draw three times even though he's up a piece.

Next time he asks for a draw I'm going to tell him to "Resign, Moron". His position is busted.

[Lucas Davies]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

Is it a line that I play, though... Probably not.

[Craig Sadler]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

..

Next time he asks for a draw I'm going to tell him to "Resign, Moron".

...

did "Resign, Moron" make the chess quotes website? :)

looking forward to seeing the game...

[Adam Cormier]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

Gary if you say you busted a line why are you not so-sure if you will win or not??

I'm going with najdorf, it busts 1.e4.

[Larry Castle]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

I voted for the Najdorf open Sicilian. I got a draw against GM Charbonneau in a 30 player simul a few years ago but he played the line with Bb5+ before I got to play a6. I knew next to nothing about this line but managed to hold the draw. My rating at the time was around 1950. He of course was playing 29 other people at the same time. Take this for what it is worth.

[Jonathan Berry]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

In an attempt to see how many chesstalk readers, if pressed, would agree with Gary Ruben that the French is a poor choice, this poll asks what 1.e4 defence is objectively best, in each respondent's opinion, for a lower rated player to upset a 2500+ player.

I voted for the first option

1. because I belong to the GRFC
2. you didn't specifically mention The Rat.

Incidentally, when Gary mentions strong players, he refers to those who thoroughly understand how to beat the opening in question. I'm afraid that a mere 2500 would not necessarily fit the bill.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

when Gary mentions strong players, he refers to those who thoroughly understand how to beat the opening in question. I'm afraid that a mere 2500 would not necessarily fit the bill.

I seem to recall Gary once refering to 2500 otb (FIDE?) as *strong*, but I'm not sure. I tried to run down an old thread with a quote of his to that effect but couldn't find it (easily anyway - perhaps it was on the old chesstalk?!).

In any case, he once refered to a 2450 correspondence rating as his equivalent of 'the Mendoza line' in baseball:

http://www.chesstalk.info/forum/show...hlight=Winawer

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

I voted for the first option

1. because I belong to the GRFC
2. you didn't specifically mention The Rat.

By GRFC I assume you mean, with irony, the Gary Ruben Fan Club :).

The Rat would be included in the "Other" category. Not that that necessarily belittles that opening by relegating it with 'the rest' (though since I'm biased to accept most ECO evaluations, with so many critical lines given as += [at least] against the Rat, plus since most world class players never seem to choose to play that defence, why not lump it in with 'the rest'?).

[Gary Ruben]

Re: What 1.e4 defence is objectively best to try to upset an unknown 2500+ player?

Gary if you say you busted a line why are you not so-sure if you will win or not??

I'm going with najdorf, it busts 1.e4.

There is always a chance I am missing something. I sacrificed a knight in the first 10 moves. Here's the first 10 moves. The games is more than twice this far.

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Ng5 Ngf6 6.Bd3 h6 7.Ne6 Qa5+ 8.Bd2 Qb6 9.Nf3 fxe6 10.Bg6+ Kd8

To play this in correspondence chess I had to feel certain it couldn't be beaten by a strong chess program and a fast computer.