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The old tradition of a joint CYCC/CO was to subsidize the CO with the CYCC which was in my opinion ethically wrong many of those years. This reached a head in Montreal and Kapaskasing where the organizers pretended to care about junior events but their actions clearly said otherwise. The direction changed for the better afterwards perhaps because it became apparent parents and players were losing interest in the CYCC.
It could be with a severe shortage of resources in the CFC they are cutting corners again by leaning on the CYCC. Whether this is required or not I don't know ( if this is the only way to run a CYCC then I understand it ). The real problem is the CFC is a shell of what it should be. Canadian chess has been gifted with many WYCC contendors and finally a gold medal and they still seem blissfully unaware of what is involved and giving something meaningful to these players competing for Canada.
If the CFC can't do a CYCC right, then don't do it. There are alternatives. One would be to investigate if the CMA could pull it off ( they used to run the event ). Two would be to go with the British or US system to qualify players to the WYCC. I personally love the British system. Send one quality player in every category complete with financial subsidy and dedicated coaching resources and equipment with not too many players per coach.
This system meant David Howell went to WYCC pretty much every year.
If the CFC can do a strong CYCC, it will be because a few strong volunteers who put the kids first are interested in running them. No such individual would recommend a junior play a CYCC game on the same day as a CO game. Its a ridiculous idea that can only exist to either save money and/or is based on the misguided idea that youth players aren't that serious or strong.
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Thursday, 11th November, 2010, 09:48 PM.
The organizers have clearly stated that this format will save money in rental costs (9 days vs 13 days).
Of course there are other possible factors, but I'm just confirming this is a big one, I would think.
If you understand all this, what's the problem? You either accept the bid or reject it. All this thread is doing is bringing up discontent and upseting potential entrants, from my reading of the posts.
Fred seem to avoid my most important question of the usage of fund raised from CYCC.
Fred, could you give a simple Yes or No on whether the CYCC money is going to subsidize CO?
These bids are being discussed by the Governors and I don't feel it's my place to answer that question, however I would suspect that any joint CYCC/CO bid, ever, has used the excess entry fee money from the CYCC to put into the joint pot (perhaps the most innocent use is to help pay for the facilties).
How about borrowing an idea from the World Open. Run the CYCC in two streams, Those that wish to play one game per day start on a Monday (say) while those that need to cut down on expenses start on a Thursday and play two games that day and Friday. The two groups then meld and play one game per day on the Saturday and Sunday. The final two rounds is what determines the final placings in Swiss tournaments and are the most important.
Also, if the one game/day field is quite small, those matches can be played at a less expensive venue (the Annex CC say).
This system would accommodate more parents who may have time constrictions on their schedules.
One aspect that I see nobody mentioned is the period when CYCC takes place.
If CYCC is not preceding CO why the dates are still in the middle of the week? For out of town parents is still the entire week that they need to take off. Also if is not preceding CO and the dates does not matter why not pick a long weekend?
If you want to see something similar (that works) with the combined bid, just take a look at traditional US Open and Denker Tournament of High School Champions + Girls Junior + College Tournament of Champions
The kids in Denker+Girls+College are playing 2 rounds a day: in the morning for their junior tournament in the afternoon the US Open.
I am not taking sides of any of the 2 bids, my daughters (this year in U10 and U16) will travel to CYCC does not matters what bid will win. My oldest will play in both while me and my youngest will come back after CYCC. If CO and CYCC will be in the same time, is a possibility that all 3 of us will play in CO.
These bids are being discussed by the Governors and I don't feel it's my place to answer that question, however I would suspect that any joint CYCC/CO bid, ever, has used the excess entry fee money from the CYCC to put into the joint pot (perhaps the most innocent use is to help pay for the facilties).
Fred, I respect you as a man of integrity, have the courage to take on tough questions and answer them honestly with the infomation you have on on hand. For this, on behalf of all junior players, chess parents & potential CO attendees, I thank you.
From your reply, I've deduced the following:
1) the excess entry fee money from the CYCC will put into the joint pot with CO,
2) the pot will go toward pay for the facilities,
3) if the joint even still does not breakeven, the pot may go towards paying GM appearance fee,
4) if still not breakeven, it may go towards paying the CO prize money, etc.
5) whatever is left, if any, will be use to support our juniors to attend WYCC.
The potential CO attendees deserve to know how the CO is being financed. The CYCC juniors and chess parents HAVE the right to know where the fund rasied from CYCC goes to.
I understand that you may not be in the position of giving an answer to the above. I would like to call for any CFC Governors or Executives who are in the position of clarifying the above to take on the responsibility.
Michael,
I respectfully disagree that you have a right to know how the CO is being financed. Do you have a right to know how much the arbiters get paid? Do you have a right to know how much each GM gets for an apearance? No you do not. Even GMs don't know what the other GMs are getting, why? Because they do not all get the same.
You can be assured that the governors have enough integrity to not accept a bid which collects money from parents under false pretenses.
I will tell you that both bids gaurantee a similar amount of money to send the kids to the WYCC.
I would be happy to discuss this further with you by E-Mail. If you are a parent of a previous CYCC player you should already have recieved an e-mail from me asking your opinion on the matters being discussed in this thread. If you have not recieved the E-mail, send me a private message with your address and I will forward it to you.
The details of the CO/CYCC bid financing will become public once the governors vote on it. This is the same as any year.
I have said this before, the CFc is moving to a new governing model where information isn't limited to what is contained in the governors letters. All sorts of things are getting discussed on this discussion board, the CFC board, and the CFC Governors board.
I'm not sure who would have to approve releasing the financial details of the CO bid to the public, prior to the vote.
I respectfully disagree that you have a right to know how the CO is being financed. Do you have a right to know how much the arbiters get paid? Do you have a right to know how much each GM gets for an apearance? No you do not. Even GMs don't know what the other GMs are getting, why? Because they do not all get the same.
Stuart, thanks for you reply. Please re-read my post carefullly.
I said
The potential CO attendees deserve to know how the CO is being financed
The word is "deserve" not "have the right".
And how something is being financed means how the money comes in not how it goes out. This you could clarify with the CFC Treasurer.
I would be happy to discuss this further with you by E-Mail. If you are a parent of a previous CYCC player you should already have recieved an e-mail from me asking your opinion on the matters being discussed in this thread. If you have not recieved the E-mail, send me a private message with your address and I will forward it to you.
I simply thought you may wish to see the e-mail which had gone out to CYCC parents--- this tries to explain the differences in the bids, as they relate to player's, and asks your opinion. This is in my opinion a more efffective method of communicating with target groups, rather then internet forums, where misinformation has a tendency to run rampant.
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