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To a certain extent, the words "round" and "game" are used interchangeably. I've given two good reasons why they might have used "game" (consistent with Bye) instead of "round" in the FM title rules. But if we're getting technical, I'd have to say that, yes, a Bye is a game, but it might not be a game of chess.
A forfeit win also isn't a game of chess, but the FIDE rule makers go to some effort to point out when a forfeit win is not rated or not eligible to help with a norm, every time it might need to. Yet when they pointedly don't mention Byes, so many people want to use Analogy to make up exclusions.
To a certain extent, the words "round" and "game" are used interchangeably. I've given two good reasons why they might have used "game" (consistent with Bye) instead of "round" in the FM title rules. But if we're getting technical, I'd have to say that, yes, a Bye is a game, but it might not be a game of chess.
One example: the round-robin tournament with 9 players. How many games does one player play? How many rounds has a tournament?
One example: the round-robin tournament with 9 players. How many games does one player play? How many rounds has a tournament?
Another good point. But still it comes down to whether a (full-point, pairings- and ratings- determined) Bye is a game, or a game that doesn't count for rating, or not a game.
Perhaps the QC intentionally left ambiguity in this case. Perhaps they want you to apply, and then they'll decide. For example, say a player has 3.5 of 8 and gets the bye in the last round. That is a far less convincing way of achieving at least 4.5 than the player who gets a bye in the second round (and gets paired appropriately for rounds 3-9) and ends up with 5 of 9.
Unfortunately, such ambiguity would make it a political matter, in two places.
Another good point. But still it comes down to whether a (full-point, pairings- and ratings- determined) Bye is a game, or a game that doesn't count for rating, or not a game.
Perhaps the QC intentionally left ambiguity in this case. Perhaps they want you to apply, and then they'll decide. For example, say a player has 3.5 of 8 and gets the bye in the last round. That is a far less convincing way of achieving at least 4.5 than the player who gets a bye in the second round (and gets paired appropriately for rounds 3-9) and ends up with 5 of 9.
Unfortunately, such ambiguity would make it a political matter, in two places.
For players at the Closed mainly hoping for an FM title, a 0 point bye would be better than a 1 point bye, since in either case they have to score at least 4.5 points out of their other 8 games, but would presumably have easier opponents if the took a 1 point bye.
Last edited by Fred McKim; Sunday, 15th May, 2011, 09:29 PM.
In our esteemed CFC handbook we have guidelines (rules) regarding what we expect from the organizers for the Closed. We even talk about meal allowances and other entitlements.
I think we should add a guideline (rule) that a floater player is available to avoid forced byes. I am thinking of an eager local player with a minimum rating of say 2000.
If any governor would like to write up the motion, I would be happy to second it. :)
Repeating myself: Have a 10 round closed. Then one bye still leaves 9 games played and qualifies the player. This may be easier than arranging a (probably low-rated) reserve player.
In our esteemed CFC handbook we have guidelines (rules) regarding what we expect from the organizers for the Closed. We even talk about meal allowances and other entitlements.
I think we should add a guideline (rule) that a floater player is available to avoid forced byes. I am thinking of an eager local player with a minimum rating of say 2000.
If any governor would like to write up the motion, I would be happy to second it. :)
As Pierre explained above, this probably wouldn't solve the norm issue, since from the regulation posted, it looks like you can't have "floaters" in an event to help achieve title requirements.
As Pierre explained above, this probably wouldn't solve the norm issue, since from the regulation posted, it looks like you can't have "floaters" in an event to help achieve title requirements.
You can have a floater if the floater is paired as a participant so that he wouldn't necessarily play the player with a bye but the player that he would play based on his tournament standing.
You can have a floater if the floater is paired as a participant so that he wouldn't necessarily play the player with a bye but the player that he would play based on his tournament standing.
So what this really means is you have a tournament with an even number of players... with one player perhaps being below the qualification standards?
Presumably you would also have to dissallow requested byes so that you maintain that even number.
You would likly also have to prevent people from withdrawing from the tournament.
As Pierre explained above, this probably wouldn't solve the norm issue, since from the regulation posted, it looks like you can't have "floaters" in an event to help achieve title requirements.
I disagree. The rules are written to avoid abuse. If you do it properly, a floater is a floater, he/she plays only when needed, and they are of a reasonable strength, I believe FIDE would (should) accept the practice. I would give the floater zero point byes where they are not needed. This would keep them near the bottom boards, less problems there. The floater would have free entry, lower rated (but not too low), ineligible for titles, and get free entry.
If you do it properly, no shenanigans, all those eligible for titles are treated equally, that should be acceptable. If not, then the rules are stupid. :(
We could try getting approval in advance from FIDE. :D
So what this really means is you have a tournament with an even number of players... with one player perhaps being below the qualification standards?
Presumably you would also have to dissallow requested byes so that you maintain that even number.
You would likly also have to prevent people from withdrawing from the tournament.
Suddenly this is not so simple...
The non-floater floater takes a bye when there are an even number of competitors without his participation. Suddenly it is simple again. Mikhail Egorov filled such a role at one of the recent Hamilton tournaments so it is not even necessary for the player to be below the qualification standards.
Actually the ideal candidate(s) would be people who are fairly strong but didn't feel that they had the stamina to play 9 games in 6 days. You could find three or four such players who would like to play for free in a Canadian Closed but felt the full grind would have been a bit much.
Increasing the number of rounds to 10 would probably be the easiest way to fix the problem without invoking floaters. The drawback to that is the extra possibility of exhaustion setting in with an extra round. Having two days with one round did help to break things up a bit.
I think we should add a guideline (rule) that a floater player is available to avoid forced byes. I am thinking of an eager local player with a minimum rating of say 2000.
If any governor would like to write up the motion, I would be happy to second it. :)
This motion would be very dangerous. The extra player is nice, but he has to enter the tournament in round one and he must be paired as a normal player. The effect is the same as a filler, risk free.
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