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Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now
Hi Hugh
That could be why the Quebec Tournaments are getting better turnouts. They are doing things Right.
I think it is time the Ontario tournament Organizers start learning from our neighbors.
The average player is not looking for the big prizes they just would like to play some decent games at a lower cost and if they win a prize its a bonus not a requirement.
Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now
I absolutely agree with you John as I'm sure it would spark more interest from people who want to get some decent practice without paying a 100 bucks for 6 rounds. Regarding junior discounts I may be a bit biased here but it's usually done to attract juniors to the game who don't have the same income as adults and have to pay for themselves.
Hi Hugh
That could be why the Quebec Tournaments are getting better turnouts. They are doing things Right.
I think it is time the Ontario tournament Organizers start learning from our neighbors.
The average player is not looking for the big prizes they just would like to play some decent games at a lower cost and if they win a prize its a bonus not a requirement.
Yes it is commendable to learn from the neighbors, both from their good moves AND their mistakes. :)
Hi Mike;
Why not just charge for the section. So if you play in the Open you pay a big entry fee as you'll be playing for the most of the money.
In the U2000 you pay a lower amount as your prizes are lower.
And in the U1600 you pay even lower entries as your prizes are even lower still.
They did this way back in the 60-70's and the numbers were greater per section.
Supply us with a decent entry fee and we won't mind playing.
Charge us two legs and an arm and we will find a new hobby.
If you are a Junior and you want to win adult Prizes then Pay Adult fees.
How would you feel if they said OH you can only win $55 for top Junior prize because you took the discounted entry fee and you are not eligible for the Bigger Prizes. You can't have your cake and eat it too Mike.
Cash prizes are an invention of adult chess players and organizers. Given a choice most juniors would gladly play as amateurs. Most Toronto organizers have resisted this step. Trying to change chess culture is impossible for juniors or their parents. Often tournament formats are a really bad fit for kids, but its the only place they get suitable competition.
Yes it is commendable to learn from the neighbors, both from their good moves AND their mistakes. :)
I can't see why adult players in a section should be paying a $100. entry fee and juniors of any strength in the same section $15. (as an example). The placement and prize money of the adult could depend on how seriously the player paying the lower fee takes the game.
I figure if a player wants to take up a chair and play first class players they should pay first class rates. If they want a seat in economy, and to play only weaker players, then paying economy is OK.
Cash prizes are an invention of adult chess players and organizers. Given a choice most juniors would gladly play as amateurs.
I recently held a junior 2-game tournament which offered either a trophy or $10 cash to players who won both games... every single winner took the cash.
The average player is not looking for the big prizes they just would like to play some decent games at a lower cost and if they win a prize its a bonus not a requirement.
Maybe. But I organize tournaments of all types - low ef low prizes, high ef high prizes, and medium ef medium prizes. Guess which one brings in the most number of people....
Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now
Hi Marcus;
My personal opinion is that Organizers should secure a site with either their own or sponsorship.
They should not depend on the players to pay the bulk of these expenses.
If you have to raise entries to the point where players cannot afford to attend then you are setting your sites for bigger and better flops.
If I have to pay a $95 -120 for an entry then I should be able to play for that prize regardless of what my rating is.
In the past there have been putting ceilings on sections as the higher rated don't want to play lower rated players. So if organizers are setting ceilings then lower rated players should not have to pay Open section prices.
We all know the organizers take from the lower sections. But if you make it too expensive for lower rated players to play then where do you get your money to draw from? The pockets of the Organizers. If the Entries keep rising I think there may be a lot more broke organizers than players.
Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now
Marcus;
AT the New York Open or World Open you pay $200 or more but there are 20 + prizes to be won per section.
You are charging $95 and you are giving out maybe 5 prizes per section.
So for half the entry as the other venues you are giving back 1/4 or less.
I would think the other two venues are a better deal dollar for dollar.per section
Last edited by John Brown; Tuesday, 2nd August, 2011, 05:29 AM.
Reason: typo
Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now
I believe that the Guelph Pro-Am has the right idea. You pay a larger entry fee to play in the Open section, usually over 2000. You pay a smaller entry fee in the lower sections, but you don't have a chance to win monetary prizes.
In tournaments like the Labour Day Open, you can charge the $95 entry fee for the top section, but charge less for the lower sections. I am okay with taking some of the entry fee from the lower section and making a larger prize fund for the Open section. But, if I'm going to pay the same as the Open section, I should have the right to a similar prize fund. You have more players who have a rating lower than 2000. Not all of them can afford a larger entry fee, combined with accommodations, food, (gas or transportation) and miscellaneous expenditures. They want to be able to spend an affordable weekend of enjoying their chess hobby and a chance to be rewarded if they play well.
I would consider playing in the Labour Day tournament if the entry fee was lowered, but not at the current entry fee of $95!!
Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now
Hi John Erickson;
The Guelph Pro Am might even attract more in the lower sections if with the trophy placings you get your entry back or free entry the next time you play at Guelph as well. It would be an incentive to play well and break even on the event if you placed 1st -3rd in the event. A trophy looks better on the shelf when you know you won it for great results
and you got some money back. Trophies look great but if you get your entry back then you'll come back another time to try again.
The one thing that most Organizers forget to see is that if you give someone something for their money they will return with open arms. Give little and you'll see less and less participating.
IF you just get a trophy then you are just paying for it with the entry, that's a pretty expensive trophy.
I think this Labour Day Open does not want out of town players to show up anyway. Sounds to me that they just want local players who live in Toronto and ride the TTC.
They are giving the Annex Chess Club Players a $10 discount.
The Toronto Labour Day has been a great event for many years and I've been in most since 1973. But this one is very pricy for out of towners.
You are welcome to stay at my place to help save some costs if you change your mind and play.
I think this year's event will go down in history as a pricy flop.Mainly because the Bathurst Site ( unless the lighting has improved in the playing hall ) is not worth a $95.00 entry fee.
Only way to prove me wrong is to have as many people as possible play.
Under the current Entry fee and Prize structure I think it will not come true.
An average playing parent with 3 siblings cannot afford $400 plus travel and meals and have maybe one win . There is no family prize, there is no family discounts and there are no reduced entries if you bring a group from the same city.
I really think the organizers feel the lower rated players are cash cows. Is it time the cash cows go dry?
Last edited by John Brown; Tuesday, 2nd August, 2011, 06:27 AM.
Reason: word transposition and an additional line from original post
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