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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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Your prizes are not guaranteed and based upon the number of players. TD pays himself first per round and flexible to assign prizes when number of players is not met. How in the world can organizers lose a fair amount out of their pockets if he got the flexibility? What if the number of players exceeded the forecast, will the prizes in each section go up (usually prizes remains are advertised)?
We have been very lucky to have Brian Fielder and David Cohen cover losess in recent tournaments. Bringing in foreign GMs is a big money eater. Most organizers in Toronto's history of weekend swisses have lost money at some point. It's risky paying Toronto's high rent for a hall and guaranteeing prizes. Bryan Lamb lost money last time he had guaranteed prizes for a Labour Day and the number of entries went down (reason unknown). With most entries coming in the last week, one never knows if it will be a success. If entries are higher than the projected, based on 140 or whatever, history has been that prizes do go up. TDs used to charge $3 per player, less than minimum wage and hardly a dent in the prize fund.
For people up in the morning 10 am is a late start. Bryan Lamb did have 11am rounds on Sat and Sunday, but the 5:30 afternoon games go very late. For those concerned about the TTC on Sunday morning there is an all-night bus along Bloor-Danforth which is just as fas as the subway, and the subway opens at 6 am on Saturday and the holiday Monday.
Increments are a better time control as it allows players to play on in an endgame they know. It stops players from losing won games on time. It reduces swindles of playing for time-scramble blunders. It is a fairer system and produces better chess.
I've been thinking some more about the complaints about prize distribution at the Toronto Labour Day Open, and I really can't make sense of them. (If you haven't been following this thread, a small group of people have been complaining that the prizes are disproportionate; that, for the same price, some players get to fly first class, while others have to fly economy.) What doesn't make sense to me is that it's U2000 and U1600 players who are complaining.
I'm surprised the complaints are not coming, instead, from the "lowly" masters, rated around 2200. Consider their plight: What prize do they have? To win the tournament top prize, they have to overcome a rating differential of over 500 points. Such rating differences don't exist at all in the U2000 section, and would be encountered in the U1600 section only by players rated under 1100.
Having titled players compete for a decent top prize, I would argue, is good for the tournament and good for chess in the city - maybe even in the country. So I think it's worth being as generous with the top prize as we can afford to be. It adds to everyone's tournament experience and it helps make chess attractive to new players - and possibly even to the media. It just raises the status of our game. Sure, this prize is in the Open section, but the poor, "lowly" masters, not to mention the poor experts, in the section are contributing just as generously to it (without any chance of winning it) as everybody else. And once you take the top prize away, the prize distribution in the Open is similar to the other sections.
Besides, if you still think the players in the Open are flying first class, while you're flying economy, it costs only $10 to switch your ticket :) Those poor experts and masters don't have the same option.
Last edited by Marcus Wilker; Friday, 12th August, 2011, 03:51 PM.
Reason: clarity, link
Do you do something to attract CIC/CMA pupils to this tournament? (Did you think about a parallel tournament only for kids.)
This is a fundamental question in how to increase CFC membership.
Certainly the tournament would be excellent training for kids who play on the dozens of school teams in the GTA. Larry Bevand was able to attract more young players to the bottom section when he recently directed a couple of Thanksgiving Opens in Toronto. Do chess teachers/parents need to be surveyed or just emailled a flyer? Do parents prefer only 1-day events? Do the kids play too fast and have nothing to do between rounds? Maybe like the chess camp show a chess movie, improv workshop, soccer game or provide a master to analysize their just-played tournament games for free (as is done in some places). I do recommend having somebody at the tournament assigned to keep the kids quiet and busy.
Do we need more kid-friendly prizes or best school prizes? With all the schools in the GTA with chess teachers surely we could be getting 100 students out to every weekend tournament.
I'm not sure why you're addressing me in a reply to Marcus Wilker's thread. Almost snuck by me there. Anyway thanks for calling me the voice of the tournament even though if I randomly went to Mexico for the rest of the year the Labour Day would still run without a hitch.
Let's take a quick glance at what else John Brown has said in case you missed it:
"I'm not complaining about the Entry fees if I can afford them I go."
"Why do you have Sunday Start at 10 am when we all know the Subway does not open till 9am"
"Labour Day Open does not want out of town players to show up anyway. Sounds to me that they just want local players who live in Toronto and ride the TTC. They are giving the Annex Chess Club Players a $10 discount."
"I think this year's event will go down in history as a pricy flop."
"I'll make you both a bet [Marcus and Hugh Siddley]. I believe you won't crack 150 players"
"Organizers should secure a site with either their own or sponsorship."
"Hi Alex I would not call the Bathurst Site a Quality site if you play in the big hall."
"the Bathurst site was the worst one I've ever played at.Lighting was the poorest, No Air conditioning in Ontario Open, Kids running in between rooms. Players passing on moves to others ."
"who would want to have a tournament at two different sites anyway?"
"Personally, regardless of cost if you knew you could not have the whole weekend at the Annex Club then a more attractive draw with your high entry fee would have been the Westin."
"Weston Hotel had poor lighting as well so is that an upgrade to larger place?"
"Out of towners who have never been to Toronto Westin or Bathurst would have a nightmare not to mention the expensive parking near Westin."
"I don't really like playing on plastic sets."
"I don't mind Kids coming but I think the Teachers and coaches alike can do two things. #1 teach them the moves first then teach them #2 Chess Ediquitte ( spelling may be wrong don't have a dictionary handy.)"
After all that this one really stands out:
"Hi Roger ; I don't give a rats tail what they do at Labour Day."
THANKS FOR READING!!
btw John Brown, in reply to your "if you knew you could not have the whole weekend at the Annex Club then a more attractive draw with your high entry fee would have been the Westin."
I really don't think you'd like your new entry fee that would need to be raised in order to cover the rental of nearly $5,000/day at the Westin for the other two days. $10,000/150 players. Get a calculator and be prepared to be amazed.
Hugh, you need to grow up.
As John Brown already stated, he was asking questions, not for him, but for others who do not have access to chesstalk. I understand you didn't appreciate the not-so constructive criticism from John, but he was just trying to make a point- is it worth going to the labour day open with these pros and cons given? It may seem as if he is drifting the players away from your tournament, but he is just giving them the knowledge of what you are getting for your money. Noone wants to pay for food gas entry fees, and hotel rates all for nothing.
I understand the rough conditions in the past, and I trust you and
Marcus will make the tournament very enjoyable this year, but if someone is concerned whether the tournament will be a success or not, that does not give you a reason to send out personal attacks, publicly, that does not help the situation whatsoever.
Before i replied to this thread, i read every single post up to this point, and it seemed like you kept bringing up Mr. brown's thoughts and concerns to fit your insults. The only message you're getting across to the viewers, is that you don't know how to handle a situation maturely, and your method of resolving it is by finger pointing and name calling.
I'm not making this post to give others a rotten image, but to make a suggestion that if you want people to respect you in the future, then try to come to a compromise before you get up and personal.
I'm the guy who's not gonna sit there and let you insult a key member of the chess community, without expressing my thoughts about the current situation.
As John Brown already stated, he was asking questions, not for him, but for others who do not have access to chesstalk. I understand you didn't appreciate the not-so constructive criticism from John, but he was just trying to make a point- is it worth going to the labour day open with these pros and cons given? It may seem as if he is drifting the players away from your tournament, but he is just giving them the knowledge of what you are getting for your money. Noone wants to pay for food gas entry fees, and hotel rates all for nothing.
I understand the rough conditions in the past, and I trust you and
Marcus will make the tournament very enjoyable this year, but if someone is concerned whether the tournament will be a success or not, that does not give you a reason to send out personal attacks, publicly, that does not help the situation whatsoever.
Before i replied to this thread, i read every single post up to this point, and it seemed like you kept bringing up Mr. brown's thoughts and concerns to fit your insults. The only message you're getting across to the viewers, is that you don't know how to handle a situation maturely, and your method of resolving it is by finger pointing and name calling.
I'm not making this post to give others a rotten image, but to make a suggestion that if you want people to respect you in the future, then try to come to a compromise before you get up and personal.
+1, also, why do posts have to be at least 10 characters? :P
I'm the guy who's not gonna sit there and let you insult a key member of the chess community, without expressing my thoughts about the current situation.
Sorry guys I keep forgetting I'm not in the locker room but on a chess message board whose viewers are mostly sensitive geeks with paper-thin skin. No genuine "insults" in any of my posts were ever intended. I apologize for being brash, I would have hoped more of you would have been a bit more insightful and understood my language but that's apparently not the case. It's my fault I should have made it more obvious. I guess you guys are mostly new around here as well, weren't around back in the good old days of chesstalk where sh!t-talking was the norm. If you noticed the youtube clip was from WWE, showcase wrestling... sigh, nevermind, my bad.
Anyone who was insulted by my posts gets a $10 discount for the tournament. Please line up. State your name and what offended you.
Last edited by Hugh Siddeley; Monday, 15th August, 2011, 01:15 AM.
Guess you missed it zachary... can you see it now with the darker background? Wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't. You are blind in more than one sense. JOKES, don't get offended... :)
Sorry guys I keep forgetting I'm not in the locker room but on a chess message board whose viewers are mostly sensitive geeks with paper-thin skin. No genuine "insults" in any of my posts were ever intended. I apologize for being brash, I would have hoped more of you would have been a bit more insightful and understood my language but that's apparently not the case. It's my fault I should have made it more obvious. I guess you guys are mostly new around here as well, weren't around back in the good old days of chesstalk where sh!t-talking was the norm. If you noticed the youtube clip was from WWE, showcase wrestling... sigh, nevermind, my bad.
Anyone who was insulted by my posts gets a $10 discount for the tournament. Please line up. State your name and what offended you.
I appreciate your semi-apology, but your sarcasm kind of ruins the point of this post. By the way, just because I defended a good friend of mine, does not mean I'm a sensitive geek if that's what you're implying. People on chesstalk want to talk about chess, not watch a guy make a bunch of wise cracks. In the locker room sure, me and you both can joke around. But time and place is key, you just have to understand that, and I'm sure many people agree with me.
Anyways, I am sorry if I was such a hassle, but I was just trying to get a point across to you. I will be playing in the labour day tournament this year, so lets leave this nonsense in the dust, and enjoy a great weekend of chess!
Guess you missed it zachary... can you see it now with the darker background? Wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't. You are blind in more than one sense. JOKES, don't get offended... :)
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