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I'm interested in the comparison you're making with smallish European events. I mean ordinary chess events, not Wijk aan Zee or the London Classic.
You're mostly talking about the prize distribution, but the other point you raise is that in the European events you attended, everyone played together in one big section. In my experience, playing in Toronto, it seems that stronger players don't want to play against weaker players. (This is not just IMs and GMs - 1700s don't want to play with 1400s.)
But if stronger players insist on having weaker players segregated off in their own sections, is it any wonder if the weaker players then want their own prize fund? Conversely, many players (Bob Armstrong included) despite arguing for relatively level prize funds are quite happy to play against stronger players (by playing up a section) even though they then have almost no chance of winning money. (Indeed players are willing to pay extra for this privilege!)
So the two points go together, don't they? Europeans and North Americans are both willing to play with weaker players, and take the weaker players' money. And they're both willing to play with the "big boys" and lose money. But no one wants to play in a weak section and donate most of the money to a higher section, i.e., to players who refuse to play with them.
Marcus
Hi Marcus,
Some good points. Not sure to what extent the two things are so connected. I get the impression that top players are definitely willing to play anyone if it increases their chances of winning more money. People want to play their peers as opposed to someone much weaker, because they love the game, or because they don't want to lose a ton of rating points (say to underrated juniors for example). People play up because they want the challenge, and also to improve / protect their ratings. I've actually had several people tell me this okay.
As for European vs North American tournaments... I simply used a couple of examples on how people were perfectly fine with the format where nobody got prizes for being the best in a specific rating class, and the turn-outs were great, nobody seemed to complain about it, and people return year after year. The amateurs as well! I am not against sectioning off classes in tournaments, and people playing their own peers. I quite enjoy playing my peers perhaps more so than getting schooled by an IM or beat a beginner. It just surprises me how people expect to win monies from such events, though.
Go to bed Kitich, get some sleep and start doing something usefull for a change instead of typing countless nonsense messages lol. Time to get over your anger against other people you gathered over decades and get a life dude!!! ;)
Do you seriously not realize I'm in a different time zone than you are? I did mention at least once that I'm in France. It's time to wake up over here. You are the one staying up until the small hours spouting a lot of hate and nonsense bringing up an argument that happened a decade ago and a YMCA program that ended 7 years ago. An argument that I had long forgotten about. It will be interesting to see who you attack next. Will it be Plotkin or Noritsyn again next or me again or will you find someone new? My guess is that the next time you fear being shown to be inadequate to be a paid coach that you'll be off attacking someone again.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 8 March, 2012, 01:41 AM.
Secondly, what I know is how the YMCA program ran and how it ended and that is was a YMCA program not a Hamilton chess club program. I was involved with it. You were not. I know the hard work and effort put in by our group of 5 and the fun the junors had. So I'm not impressed when a hot head such as yourself starts insulting the program years later just to get his kicks. I would recommend you learn to respect others no matter what their age. I guess you are so outraged by the argument between myself and Pushke that you have finally decided to bring it up 10 years later?
Thirdly you are the one going around with your 2100 rating taking money from people and passing yourself off as qualified to make a GM out of someone. Not me. Maybe that's why you feel you have to attack other strong players higher rated than yourself. To cover up for your own inadequacies. Personally I would never try to individually coach someone for money unless I was master level myself and preferably with at least some kind of title.
I also know that the Hamilton club is very small compared to what it was in the 1970s. That statement by me is what seems to have set you off on this latest attack against someone, namely me. Get over it. The club is miniscule compared to what it was. I'm glad it's hanging on and having some success with it's junior program thanks to Garvin. It will have to grow quite a bit to match the junior checker scene in Hamilton http://www.thespec.com/videozone/683329
Go to bed Kitich, get some sleep and start doing something usefull for a change instead of typing countless nonsense messages lol. Time to get over your anger against other people you gathered over decades and get a life dude!!! ;)
I would recommend you learn to respect your elders. Maybe someone will listen to you until, if you new what you were taking about. There are people who think they know staff and there are people who actually know staff. You obviously think you know it all. :D
What is next you are going to teach GM how to play good chess? Geez, that will be a laugh for us all!
Firstly you mean stuff not staff, knew not new.
Secondly, what I know is how the YMCA program ran and how it ended and that is was a YMCA program not a Hamilton chess club program. I was involved with it. You were not. I know the hard work and effort put in by our group of 5 and the fun the junors had. So I'm not impressed when a hot head such as yourself starts insulting the program years later just to get his kicks. I would recommend you learn to respect others no matter what their age. I guess you are so outraged by the argument between myself and Pushke that you have finally decided to bring it up 10 years later?
Thirdly you are the one going around with your 2100 rating taking money from people and passing yourself off as qualified to make a GM out of someone. Not me. Maybe that's why you feel you have to attack other strong players higher rated than yourself. To cover up for your own inadequacies. Personally I would never try to individually coach someone for money unless I was master level myself and preferably with at least some kind of title.
I also know that the Hamilton club is very small compared to what it was in the 1970s. That statement by me is what seems to have set you off on this latest attack against someone, namely me. Get over it. The club is miniscule compared to what it was. I'm glad it's hanging on and having some success with it's junior program thanks to Garvin. It will have to grow quite a bit to match the junior checker scene in Hamilton http://www.thespec.com/videozone/683329
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 8 March, 2012, 12:54 AM.
My gosh man either improve your English or give Mohawk College back their diploma (assuming you completed it). There are foreign exchange students in France here that are not native English speakers that could be your English professors. Actually there are also French students here studying in English that have never lived in an English speaking country, that could also school you in English.
Speaking of laughs the next time I see the other 4 guys I'll be sure to let them know what you think of the program we ran. We'll be laughing at your ignorance I'm sure.
I would recommend you learn to respect your elders. Maybe someone will listen to you until, if you new what you were taking about. There are people who think they know staff and there are people who actually know staff. You obviously think you know it all. :D
What is next you are going to teach GM how to play good chess? Geez, that will be a laugh for us all!
My gosh man either improve your English or give Mohawk College back their diploma (assuming you completed it). There are foreign exchange students in France here that are not native English speakers that could be your English professors. Actually there are also French students here studying in English that have never lived in an English speaking country, that could also school you in English.
Speaking of laughs the next time I see the other 4 guys I'll be sure to let them know what you think of the program we ran. We'll be laughing at your ignorance I'm sure.
FYI there's really no point in arguing with him. Every forum has one or two like him. Most places would just delete the garbage posts or possibly even start banning people for a week as a warning.
In the past I've promoted the " Level Playing Field " prize distribution.
Each section pools its own entry fees. Each section pays a percentage of all tournament expenses, so that all are covered. The balance of fees left in the section are the prize fund.
The section with the most players gets the biggest prize fund!
Any problem with this?
Bob A
HI Bob;
I have to disagree with you here. I think the Elite or Open sections deserve bigger prizes and nothing less than $1000 for First should be expected.
What I do feel is that if any section is paying the same amount of entry fee then they too should expect a big prize. The norm right now is to charge the same entry fee and give out less per section. If you want more participation from the lower ranks then you have to reduce their entry fees so more will come out but give back at least 5-10 times of the entry back as prizes. So if you charge $100 to enter the Open then $1000 is First. $70 in U2000 then $700 is First $50 in U1600 then $500 for First. That only takes 10 players per group to pay out Prizes the rest will be divided as per other prizes, rent, TD fees etc. The norm now wants the lower players to pay high fees but not get a reasonable return to bring out more players. I'd think 10 times your entry is more than enough to bring out more players. Most lower class players usually have more family members so a cheaper entry fee should in theory bring out more players.
Thanks for a laugh. I do need once in a while, and this is why I visit chesstalk occasionally! ;)
Now I know your mental state of mine. If you is speaking to you, it completely proofs completely opposite picture all together. :D
My gosh man either improve your English or give Mohawk College back their diploma (assuming you completed it). There are foreign exchange students in France here that are not native English speakers that could be your English professors. Actually there are also French students here studying in English that have never lived in an English speaking country, that could also school you in English.
Speaking of laughs the next time I see the other 4 guys I'll be sure to let them know what you think of the program we ran. We'll be laughing at your ignorance I'm sure.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Wednesday, 7 March, 2012, 06:19 PM.
This is the unfotunate part. Usually everyone will figure it out by this time. :(
Did you consider that possible there is nothing mentaly wrong with me. Did that possibly slip your mind? :D
I do not think you received any compliments from insutling and attacking other club members.
You speak to your dog? . We wonder what you guys talk about? Could you share it with all of us.
Maybe there is something mentally wrong with you.
Considering that I'm not the one bringing up a program that ended 7 years ago and that I know nothing about to attack someone else I don't think I'm the one who has the issues here.
No nobody complimented me for my tiff with Pushke. Nor do I think anyone has complimented you for your arguments with and insulting of Noritsyn and Plotkin and many others. Or of your constantly dragging juniors into your tirades. At least my tiff was only with one person and was what more than 10 years ago? You seem to like to spread yourself around to get to everyone eventually.
I said the five of us received compliments as to how the program ran. You can blow and bluster but your tirade is not going to change that.
Yes I talk to my dog. He is much more intelligent than you and much better educated and behaved. :D I just did share what we talk about.
I know you see yourself as the grand pubah of junior chess in Hamilton now but I don't need to answer to you for ending my involvement in the YMCA junior program 7 years ago. Unlike you I have not made a penny for my time with junior chess nor would I ever want to.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Wednesday, 7 March, 2012, 04:07 PM.
[The five of us received lots of compliments as to how our program ran both from the parents, the YMCA and the juniors and good feedback from Hal's tournaments. I have fond memories of the program and really don't care if a constant liar and insulting person like you now decides to attack the program. You are irrelevant especially more than 7 years later. .
I do not think you received any compliments from insutling and attacking other club members.
[Yes I have a dog and he just told me he wouldn't take lessons from you. He already knows how to bark at people and poop in the park so he feels he has nothing he could learn from you.
You speak to your dog? . We wonder what you guys talk about? Could you share it with all of us.
Yes you were born in 1981 so when I tell you the club was huge before then and puny now I don't see how you are disputing this. QUOTE]
I am glad you finally figured that one out. One should think, only then write. Consider this a free lesson Mr. Kitich. :D
Probably they do and realize how lucky they are, that Mr. Kitich is not teaching their kids. Otherwise they just might lose their lunch. ;)
You have a dog? :)
I didn't finally figure it out, I knew it all along. I just couldn't figure out how you had the mentality to deny something you had no way of knowing personally.
The five of us received lots of compliments as to how our program ran both from the parents, the YMCA and the juniors and good feedback from Hal's tournaments. I have fond memories of the program and really don't care if a constant liar and insulting person like you now decides to attack the program. You are irrelevant especially more than 7 years later.
Yes I have a dog and he just told me he wouldn't take lessons from you. He already knows how to bark at people and poop in the park so he feels he has nothing he could learn from you.
okay.
. We wonder what you guys talk about? Could you share it with all of us.
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