FIDE level chess in Canada

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Politicians often use "we" and "us", but some of them have real supporters

Hi Nikolay,

I am also unaware, that such words as "we" and "us", are only used by politicians. I hear these words everyday and seems to me everyone uses them. Can you please tell us, how you came to this conclusion. :p

P.S. Also, I seen your friend Mr. Ochkoos the other day and he seems to be under false impression, that I am attacking you! All I have being doing is replying to your post with answers, that is all. Can you please next time you see him, tell him the truth. Thanks.

Have a great day.

Mikhail

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Hi Nikolay,

I am also unaware, that such words as "we" and "us", are only used by politicians. I hear these words everyday and seems to me everyone uses them. Can you please tell us, how you came to this conclusion. :p

P.S. Also, I seen your friend Mr. Ochkoos the other day and he seems to be under false impression, that I am attacking you! All I have being doing is replying to your post with answers, that is all. Can you please next time you see him, tell him the truth. Thanks.

Have a great day.

Mikhail

Mr Ochkoos is very perceptive. He can see when someone is constantly winding up and taking shots at other people.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

You fail to grasp that a high rated player dropping out of chess is a big loss for the community, especially if he writes, teaches and shares his knowledge and experience in many ways. All that is lost for further generations of players, especially the young and up and coming ones.
The average amateur dropping out is a negligible loss chesswise. His loss is financial : one less entry fee to come in. That loss is easily made up for with just about anybody else willing to pay a membership card and entry fees. The strong ones dropping are much harder to be replaced. How is it possible to make up for LeSiege and Bluvshtein's losses ?

There is not one would be tournament player waiting to take the place of any player who drops out. Do you not get that chess participation has been in decline since the 1970's? Clubs that used to be huge and now tiny such as Hamilton. Do you also not get that sponsors want to reach a lot of people and get a lot of exposure? Do you also not get that the USSR system was successful because they had plenty of players at all levels? Just to reach a point of being able to play a reasonable game in a tournament is a fairly good accomplishment for people. Many players come out to clubs only to stop going because they find they are not ready to play in tournaments.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

There is not one would be tournament player waiting to take the place of any player who drops out. Do you not get that chess participation has been in decline since the 1970's? Clubs that used to be huge and now tiny such as Hamilton. Do you also not get that sponsors want to reach a lot of people and get a lot of exposure? Do you also not get that the USSR system was successful because they had plenty of players at all levels? Just to reach a point of being able to play a reasonable game in a tournament is a fairly good accomplishment for people. Many players come out to clubs only to stop going because they find they are not ready to play in tournaments.

Not sure what point(s) exactly you are trying to make besides trying to convey to all that you must find a way to contradict me in every which way possible. That part is pretty clear... :) Yes, to have more players would be better than having fewer players. And then... ?

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

He can see when someone is constantly winding up and taking shots at other people.

It is nice that you share your personal opinion once again with us, which does not make any sense. :D

Unfortunately, it is completely irrelevant, since you have not evidence or proof to you claims. ;)

[Duncan Smith]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

I believe we are witnessing a fundamental shift in interests in Canada, where almost no one believes in the FIDE system anymore. Veterans who grew up with this system are trying to keep it going, but many players are clearly voting that the system "as is" isn't worth their time and effort. Nowhere more glaring is this then amongst the FIDE titled players that would normally be the active stars in a healthy system.

So, beyond the odd player like Bator that clearly loves to play, or maybe an Eric Hanson ( will he remain interested now he has gotten a better glimpse of the top FIDE events ? ), there just aren't players who you can attract to events.

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Clubs that used to be huge and now tiny such as Hamilton.

Our Hamilton club is getting stronger and our juniors filling up ranks as one of the strongest juniors in Canada and it continues to be growing every year. Last year Hamilton Club set a new milestone, as we crowned our new youngest Hamilton City Champion!

As I remember in the past, that you were in charge of Hamilton Junior Chess Club in around 2004-2005 years. I remember you quite! Maybe because you realized you were doing a good job and left Hamilton juniors on their own.

Maybe, because of that, Hamilton Club was so tiny at that time. :D

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Our Hamilton club is getting stronger and our juniors filling up ranks as one of the strongest juniors in Canada and it continues to be growing every year. Last year Hamilton Club set a new milestone, as we crowned our new youngest Hamilton City Champion!

As I remember in the past, that you were in charge of Hamilton Junior Chess Club in around 2004-2005 years. I remember you quite! Maybe because you realized you were doing a good job and left Hamilton juniors on their own.

Maybe, because of that, Hamilton Club was so tiny at that time. :D

You obviously don't remember the 1970's and how much bigger the club was back then. It was huge. The high school championship we had back then featured about 30 students incluing myself. The high school league had at least 75 of us playing. The adult club met in a whole floor at first place, had some very strong players and required a large separate room for the tournaments. I'm assuming you were two years old or not in Canada back then. I've seen the club back then and I've seen it over the years since and it does not even come close to being what it was.

Let's count the number other points on which you are wrong:

I was not in charge of the Hamilton Junior Chess Club. It was a YMCA program where the YMCA provided the facilities and the publicity. It was at the request of the YMCA that the program was started. We were required to be police cleared to work with young children as YMCA volunteers. The program met on Saturday mornings apart from any meeting time of the Hamilton club and the Hamilton club was not even meeting in the YMCA any longer. The Hamilton club contributed not a cent to the endeavour. I was not in charge, it was a group effort. Five of us from the Hamilton club were involved in helping out for 3 years. One person moved to another city for work, one had a second child, one left for university etc. I was then left as the only volunteer. When I asked for volunteers from the Hamilton club the response was complete lack of interest. Funny given that you are now claiming that it was the Hamilton Junior Chess Club. I then notifed the YMCA that I too was ending my participaton in the program as of the following year. Part of my reason was that Hal Bond was no longer running his excellent junior tournaments in Burlington so that there was no longer that great outlet for the YMCA juniors to participate in.

I'm glad to hear that the juniors at the Hamilton club are doing well. I don't measure the success of a program by your criteria though. The YMCA program ran for 3 years, the juniors enjoyed it. That's all I was concerned about at the time.

Now go ahead and do one of your famous Egorov tirades against me just because I used to volunteer my time. Ironically I'm sure because you were one of the Hamilton club members who had no interest in stepping forward back then. I'm assuming that Egorov must be paid or Egorov stays home. Am I right? Have you ever volunteered your time with any juniors?

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Not sure what point(s) exactly you are trying to make besides trying to convey to all that you must find a way to contradict me in every which way possible. That part is pretty clear... :) Yes, to have more players would be better than having fewer players. And then... ?

I'm pretty obviously making the point that your claim that lower rated players are easily replaced by others starting up is wrong. I'm not sure why this point eludes you except perhaps because of your disdain for those players.

So let me draw the diagram for you. More players are better than fewer, no matter what the median rating of the fewer players left are. So a 1500 player leaving competetive rated chess is just as bad as a master player leaving because both cases lead to fewer players, which even you agree is not as good as more players. So when Bob G says every player is valuable he is correct and not just because of financal considerations as you contend.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

It is nice that you share your personal opinion once again with us, which does not make any sense. :D

Unfortunately, it is completely irrelevant, since you have not evidence or proof to you claims. ;)

Everybody in the chess community can see what you are doing right before our very eyes. You attack people and then claim that you are not. It's rather psychologically interesting. This seems to have started only when you started hanging your shingle out as a coach. Perhaps you see your role as coach as attacking others. Kind of World Wide Wrestling style coaching?

[Paul Bonham]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Hi Bob,


Firstly I'd like to say that I am speaking as a player and not an organizer.

I disagree with this entirely. Having these class prizes is promoting mediocrity. Most tournaments I've been to, the lower classes subsidize the top section, and so they should. Some people call me elitist, but I am actually quite indifferent as to whether an elite player has or not to pay an entry fee, so long as the prize fund is quite substantial.

It's incomprehensible to me how so many weak players seem to legitimately believe they should be in contention for a "prize". Truth is, there's very little money in chess (playing). Professionals have to teach to make money off chess. Whatever little money exists in chess, in my opinion, should be to improve the quality of tournaments (which is beneficiary to all players) and then prizes to the top finishers, in the top section.
One interesting example I can think of are the Guelph tournaments. Hal only gives prizes to the top section, although I don't think lower sections subsidize the top section. However, bottle water, fruit, coffee, granola bars are provided. Many players seem to like this format enough and the "classes" don't seem to be suffering that much in participation. Winners in the lower classes get a neat trophy, a symbol of achievement amongst our weak peers, great!
Over the past two Summers, I had the opportunity to play in a couple of tournaments in Greece, and all the tournaments over there seemed to follow a very identical format. One section open swiss, 9 rounds, only the top 10 finishers get prizes. Then they had a prize for top woman and a prize for best age category finisher (top finisher U18, U16, U14, U12). Everyone played together in one section, and people seemed quite content with that.

You and I, Bob, are weak. So is a 2200 and so is a 1200. I don't see why anyone below IM strength could think he/she should ever be winning any money from playing chess. We don't contribute anything to the game itself. It really bothers me this North American chess culture, particularly in the USA, where people really think their garbage chess should net them anything. I am (perhaps foolishly) of the opinion that we should all be playing chess for the love of the game, and that the elite players should in addition play for something else, since they (also, ideally) contribute to chess.
Someone gave this example once and I've repeated it and will again. When we go to the movies, we spend $15 per person on ticket alone these days it seems. $30 if you want to take someone, plus parking, plus popcorn or dinner etc... a 4 hour evening can cost $50-100. I believe chess tournaments range from $50-100 for 2-3 days or something like 30 hours worth of entertainment.
Surely I've won a few prizes in chess tournaments, and I welcome them as a neat bonus, not something I had been looking forward to. At best, it covered my expenses for the weekend.
Anyone out there who is not at least an IM and thinks he/she should be entitled to get money from playing chess, you're weak. Quit whining and get a McJob. You'll make more money over a weekend and it's guaranteed!

This is nothing against you Bob, just responding to the idea you presented. Unfortunately many people share that view and I am strongly against it.


Alex Ferreira

Since you are a chess event organizer, Alex, I write this with the greatest of respect and I hope that at least a few of the points I will make here will not be in vain.

First of all, with respect to tournaments in Greece or any other European country: we have to recognize a fundamental difference in the culture that affects chess. In Europe, the population has time on their hands. Much, much more so than in North America. Greece is a prime example: most of the citizenry works for government and has very generous paid time off (which unfortunately for them, they are beginning to lose that now because they've been living on borrowed time and other people's money, and Greece is but the first flashpoint in a massive change called "austerity" coming to Europe).

So what does that mean for chess events? It means the people there up to now have been able to afford a much more relaxed lifestyle, and so time spent playing or even watching chess has been much more available. It affects the mentality. People will spend money to enter a chess event even if they can't win that money back, because they have time to kill and so do many other people, so that chess events become SOCIAL events. In North America, for the most part chess events are NOT PRIMARILY social events. Time is more precious here, free time is much less available, and chess takes up valuable time. So Alex, if I may suggest, don't waste effort trying to equate chess events in North America to chess events in Europe. The differences cannot be erased. In fact, with austerity coming, the reverse change will be happening. Chess events in Europe will end up becoming more like chess events in North America. It is sad, but the likes of Jean Hebert will continue to wear blinders and believe that European chess standards can be imported into North America. Everything Jean posts here about the sad state of chess in Canada merely showcases his complete lack of understanding. Notice I'm not saying he is wrong as to the problems, I'm saying that he doesn't understand the forces behind the problems and why they simply can't be overcome.

There are only so many people (in North America) who will be playing chess for purely love of the game. That number of people will continue to remain very very low for the forseeable future. Thus Alex, as an organizer you are not going to grow your events (or anyone else's) by believing that you can in any way attract more and more people with such a philosophy. You can't make people love chess (in its present form). Most people don't love chess in its present form and never will.

I can help you understand why weak chess players would expect to make money in chess, and I can explain it with one word: poker. There are plenty of weak poker players making money in poker, because poker doesn't rely on pure skill. Poker allows luck to determine results. If chess did the same, it would have the same financial success as poker. Since chess allows no luck in determining results, chess has the opposite financial result as poker: a shrinking base of the pyramind as players at the base realize they have no hope of advancing and also realize that the game takes inordinate amounts of their precious non-European time. The base is shrinking more and more as the requirement for opening theory knowledge plays a greater and greater part in chess results.

To counteract this, it becomes necessary in North American tourament chess to offer class prizes to keep the base interested. If you continue just taking money from the base and handing it to the elite, you will shrink organized chess in North America, guaranteed. So yes, Alex, you are correct to say the weak should not expect to ever make money in chess, as long as you are willing to also see organized chess decline. It's the simple reality.

I and some other people are working to bring some change to the North American chess scene. What we are planning is quite dramatic, and it will take time to put in motion. The year 2013, assuming we survive the Mayan calendar, the European collapse, and war with Iran, promises to be the most exciting in modern chess history, and not just for North America either. To all those anguishing about the sorry state of affairs for chess players in North America, I can only say, be patient, help is coming. Rome wasn't built in a day.

For chess players who want to prepare for what is coming: stop studying chess openings, your best money opportunities will not lie with playing standard chess games. Instead, study chess tactics. The wilder and crazier the tactics, the better.

Of course, if you love a good long strategic game of standard chess and don't mind paying money to the elite and spending your weekends in long chess battles, you have my blessing and I hope organizers like Alex will continue to provide you the opportunities to play the game you love.

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Everybody in the chess community can see what you are doing right before our very eyes. You attack people and then claim that you are not. It's rather psychologically interesting. This seems to have started only when you started hanging your shingle out as a coach. Perhaps you see your role as coach as attacking others. Kind of World Wide Wrestling style coaching?

We take it, that by ‘Everyone’ you mean yourself only. :)

You attack people and then claim that you are not. It's rather psychologically interesting. This seems to have started only when you started hanging your shingle out as a coach. Perhaps you see your role as coach as attacking others. Kind of World Wide Wrestling style coaching?

The only person who seems to attack people is you here. People still remember your insulting attack on one of our oldest and most valuable members in Hamilton Club.
As I recall, you said to him: ” WHY DON'T YOU DIE YOU OLD F***’. He is old enough to be your father. A lot of people witnessed it, and I was one of them. After witnessing this, it is obvious that the only thing you do well is insult others. I guess your parents did not teach you any manners or respect for elderly.

You should be ashamed of yourself!

During that time you were also in charge of ‘Hamilton Junior Club’, when you quite on all the kids. For a while they were wondering what happened to the club.

This seems to have started only when you started hanging your shingle out as a coach.

We are very glad, that you are not involved in coaching juniors and organizing in Hamilton anymore. If you listen to the word on the street, you get an impression, that you were not good at. After you left, we started to get a lot more juniors, more adult members, few female members as well. ;)

Perhaps you see your role as coach as attacking others. Kind of World Wide Wrestling style coaching?

I will stick to chess and coaching juniors, since I am in demand! Maybe you should try World Wide Wrestling style coaching. You seems to have right credentials for it. :D

You seem to be very good at something. I did buy a lot of good books from you with 90% discount. Thanks for that. I also hear that people in our club still selling and reselling your chess equipment.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

We take it, that by ‘Everyone’ you mean yourself only. :)



The only person who seems to attack people is you here. People still remember your insulting attack on one of our oldest and most valuable members in Hamilton Club.
As I recall, you said to him: ” WHY DON'T YOU DIE YOU OLD F***’. He is old enough to be your father. A lot of people witnessed it, and I was one of them. After witnessing this, it is obvious that the only thing you do well is insult others. I guess your parents did not teach you any manners or respect for elderly.

You should be ashamed of yourself!

During that time you were also in charge of ‘Hamilton Junior Club’, when you quite on all the kids. For a while they were wondering what happened to the club.



We are very glad, that you are not involved in coaching juniors and organizing in Hamilton anymore. If you listen to the word on the street, you get an impression, that you were not good at. After you left, we started to get a lot more juniors, more adult members, few female members as well. ;)



I will stick to chess and coaching juniors, since I am in demand! Maybe you should try World Wide Wrestling style coaching. You seems to have right credentials for it. :D

You seem to be very good at something. I did buy a lot of good books from you with 90% discount. Thanks for that. I also hear that people in our club still selling and reselling your chess equipment.

Keep piling on the insults Egorov. You know nothing of what you are talking about. You were not involved in the YMCA program and I don't need someone like you criticizing me after the fact especially when you wouldn't come forward to be part of the program. There were 5 of us running the program, it was a group effort so if you want to say all 5 of us were lousy then good for you. 'Word on the street' means you are making stuff up off the top of your head. I'm pretty certain that none of the YMCA juniors even knew who you or anyone else at the Hamilton club was other than the 5 of us and that they didn't go to the Hamilton club. Although I do remember you fishing around around from time to time trying to pick up paying students for yourself. We let them know about the club but they didn't like the meeting time of the Hamilton club. They were more interested in playing on Saturday mornings and even then competing activities like swimming lessons and basketball took some participants away. I informed the YMCA and the participants that my involvment in the program was ending. I was under no obligation to continue forever. I also repeat there was no Hamilton Junior Club it was a YMCA program. The Hamilton club did not contribute a single cent, did not rent the room, did not provide any teaching material and did not meet at the same time or same day even. What is this obsession you have with proving that it was the Hamilton Junior Club? I wasn't required to report to anyone at the Hamilton club as my boss and certainly not you. Apart from the 5 of us no one at the Hamilton Club was interested in volunteering even for one day. The whole thing was started at the initiative of the YMCA with their financial and programming support.

Yes I had an argument with Pushke, yes he disrupted a tournament, yes it got nasty, and no I don't care how old he is, he is not my father. He's a nasty piece of work who tells beginners to the club they should not be playing. I had a woman at work tell me that her husband came to play there, was paired with Pushke and then never returned because of Pushke's attitude. That's just one case I know of. If you want the club to continue to stagnate keep supporting the 'elderly'. That's been going on for a number of years as our high school coach warned us about Pushke when we started going to play at the Hamilton club. Our coach played regularly at the Hamilton club and Pushke already had a reputation back then for trying to boss people around especially juniors. Our coach did not want us to have the same problem and told us to come see him if Pushke tried to boss us around.

By the way I'm older than you aren't I. Better that you should concentrate on improving your English language skills. You've been here how many years, went to college here and your spelling and grammar are still subpar.

Did your mother not teach you not to attack people. I'm sure she tried but based on your posts here she failed completely. Better people than me think so such as Ochkoos apparently.

I'm glad that what Garvin started after the YMCA program ended as the Hamilton Junior Club is succeeding. Hopefully it really is and you are not just making things up. I stopped by a few times to see how it was going the year he started it. It was not the same participants and the numbers were down. Garvin had his hands full running things on his own when I dropped by. You were nowhere to be seen. I'm not going to get into an insult match with you as to which program was better. We had 50 to 60 participants in total and about 15 on average at the YMCA program for the 3 years it ran. Yes we also had female members but other than the parents and grandparents that we encouraged to participate with their kids we had no adult members in the YMCA program. The record of the YMCA juniors at Hal Bond's junior tournaments in Burlington was quite good but more importantly they had a lot of fun.

The same team ran the active tournaments at the Germania club, so if you want to start insulting those too go right ahead. When you say we were glad you quit who exactly do you mean? Yourself I assume. I do remember a bizzare incident at work where one of my coworkers told me that someone from the chess club claimed to have been my chess coach when I was a child. I didn't know the person in any way shape or form and never had taken lessons from anyone as a child. If that's who you mean by we then I'm glad too. He was apparently trying to claim this in the context of being a personal friend of mine and that this entitled him to pull strings.

You also seem to forget that I did stop by the Hamilton club from time to time after 2006. It was the same small club with just about the same people. I didn't see any female members. When did this big growth start to happen? Now more than 7 years after the YMCA program ended? I think even you would be hard pressed to show a connection 7 years later between the two events. No one would be happier than me if the club returned to its glory days and size of the 70's. I was severly disappointed when I rejoined the club in about 1990 and found that it had moved to that small room in the basement of the YWCA and was a mere shadow of its former self.

You're welcome for the used chess books although I'm not sure why you are bringing that up now?

[Marcus Wilker]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Hi Bob,


Firstly I'd like to say that I am speaking as a player and not an organizer.

I disagree with this entirely. Having these class prizes is promoting mediocrity. Most tournaments I've been to, the lower classes subsidize the top section, and so they should. Some people call me elitist, but I am actually quite indifferent as to whether an elite player has or not to pay an entry fee, so long as the prize fund is quite substantial.

It's incomprehensible to me how so many weak players seem to legitimately believe they should be in contention for a "prize". Truth is, there's very little money in chess (playing). Professionals have to teach to make money off chess. Whatever little money exists in chess, in my opinion, should be to improve the quality of tournaments (which is beneficiary to all players) and then prizes to the top finishers, in the top section.
One interesting example I can think of are the Guelph tournaments. Hal only gives prizes to the top section, although I don't think lower sections subsidize the top section. However, bottle water, fruit, coffee, granola bars are provided. Many players seem to like this format enough and the "classes" don't seem to be suffering that much in participation. Winners in the lower classes get a neat trophy, a symbol of achievement amongst our weak peers, great!
Over the past two Summers, I had the opportunity to play in a couple of tournaments in Greece, and all the tournaments over there seemed to follow a very identical format. One section open swiss, 9 rounds, only the top 10 finishers get prizes. Then they had a prize for top woman and a prize for best age category finisher (top finisher U18, U16, U14, U12). Everyone played together in one section, and people seemed quite content with that.

You and I, Bob, are weak. So is a 2200 and so is a 1200. I don't see why anyone below IM strength could think he/she should ever be winning any money from playing chess. We don't contribute anything to the game itself. It really bothers me this North American chess culture, particularly in the USA, where people really think their garbage chess should net them anything. I am (perhaps foolishly) of the opinion that we should all be playing chess for the love of the game, and that the elite players should in addition play for something else, since they (also, ideally) contribute to chess.
Someone gave this example once and I've repeated it and will again. When we go to the movies, we spend $15 per person on ticket alone these days it seems. $30 if you want to take someone, plus parking, plus popcorn or dinner etc... a 4 hour evening can cost $50-100. I believe chess tournaments range from $50-100 for 2-3 days or something like 30 hours worth of entertainment.
Surely I've won a few prizes in chess tournaments, and I welcome them as a neat bonus, not something I had been looking forward to. At best, it covered my expenses for the weekend.
Anyone out there who is not at least an IM and thinks he/she should be entitled to get money from playing chess, you're weak. Quit whining and get a McJob. You'll make more money over a weekend and it's guaranteed!

This is nothing against you Bob, just responding to the idea you presented. Unfortunately many people share that view and I am strongly against it.


Alex Ferreira

Alex,

I'm interested in the comparison you're making with smallish European events. I mean ordinary chess events, not Wijk aan Zee or the London Classic.

You're mostly talking about the prize distribution, but the other point you raise is that in the European events you attended, everyone played together in one big section. In my experience, playing in Toronto, it seems that stronger players don't want to play against weaker players. (This is not just IMs and GMs - 1700s don't want to play with 1400s.)

But if stronger players insist on having weaker players segregated off in their own sections, is it any wonder if the weaker players then want their own prize fund? Conversely, many players (Bob Armstrong included) despite arguing for relatively level prize funds are quite happy to play against stronger players (by playing up a section) even though they then have almost no chance of winning money. (Indeed players are willing to pay extra for this privilege!)

So the two points go together, don't they? Europeans and North Americans are both willing to play with weaker players, and take the weaker players' money. And they're both willing to play with the "big boys" and lose money. But no one wants to play in a weak section and donate most of the money to a higher section, i.e., to players who refuse to play with them.

Marcus

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Keep piling on the insults Egorov. .

These are the facts and also sad reality Mr. Kitich and they directly relate to you unfortunately.

Yes I had an argument with Pushke, yes he disrupted a tournament, yes it got nasty, and no I don't care how old he is, he is not my father. He's a nasty piece of work who tells beginners to the club they should not be playing. I had a woman at work tell me that her husband came to play there, was paired with Pushke and then never returned because of Pushke's attitude. .

Is this why you said: ‘WHY DON’T YOU DIE OLD ****’?. You crossed the line, that is for sure. This was between her husband and Mr. Pushkey. They are both mature individuals. It had nothing to do with you. You should have stayed away.

He's a nasty piece of work who tells beginners to the club they should not be playing. I had a woman at work tell me that her husband came to play there, was paired with Pushke and then never returned because of Pushke's attitude. .

I kind of like the guy. No one is perfect. You on the other hand acted out of line and should of definitely apologized to him. Of course he has full right to refuse it, after what you said to him.

That's just one case I know of. If you want the club to continue to stagnate keep supporting the 'elderly'.

Sounds like you have discrimination against the elders and like to insult them.

We supporting everyone to join our club and club is growing. We do not discriminate anyone. Everyone is welcome to join our club!

By the way I'm older than you aren't I. Better that you should concentrate on improving your English language skills. You've been here how many years, went to college here and your spelling and grammar are still subpar.

Now you discriminating foreigners too. Is there an end to your discrimination talents?

Did your mother not teach you not to attack people.

I am not attacking others, just raising critical issues, stating the facts or replying to insults such as yours. You are the one who is attacking her. I guess your parents didn’t teach you that either.

I was under no obligation to continue forever.

It would have being very polite to tell all junior members, that you stopping operations. How you ended was very arrogant and disrespectful to parents and other juniors members. Parents were still wondering what happened to it and kept coming on Saturday, while there was no club and no Mr. Kitich.

Garvin found lots of emails from parents, after you have left.

I didn't see any female members.

Now we do. :p

When did this big growth start to happen? .

It started, right after you have left. :D