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What are these annual fees to FIDE exactly ? Would the CFC be happy with the FQE paying a per capita share of these (around 25%) in exchange to have normal access to FIDE ratings and a formula to recognize the FQE ratings (for national championships purposes) and give Quebec players equal chances ?
Jean Hébert
Taken from a thread Mr. Hébert wrote on March 3rd on this blog.
It appears to me that this agreement roughly follows the suggestion of Mr. Hébert...
Give us some figures Mr Poulin before trying to use my words for your ends. What are the annual fees and expenses related to FIDE ? How have you come to believe that the FQE should pay annually to the CFC 9$ per adult member and 4$ per junior to have access to FIDE ratings that might mean something to about 2% of the FQE membership ? How can you be so sure that paying 7-8,000$ (or more I suspect) annually to the CFC is financially justified AND viable for the FQE ? How come this deal comes up just before you are about to leave your position as FQE president and won't have to deal with the consequences ?
Four people who took part in the 1978 FQE-CFC meeting, post to Chesstalk 34 years later. I haven't referred to that [later repudiated] agreement in responding to the current one, I just looked at the group photo!
The clauses aren't numbered in the PDF, but 6 and 7 don't explicitly recognize FQE ratings.
6-- FQE members would be allowed to participate to Canadian Nationals at the same conditions as if they were CFC members.
7-- FQE members would be considered for inclusion on Canadian National Teams on the same basis as CFC members.
It isn't the issue it used to be, because CFC championships more resemble open events now. But that may revert. One would want to know whether a Quebec player with a 2200 FQE rating would be just as eligible for the Zonal as a BC player with a 2200 CFC rating. It's even more crucial for national team selection.
I don't see a formula for converting those $9 and $4 payments into governors. Quebec should have lots of governors. Taxation with representation is an important principle. It may seem expedient to shortcut that step, but look at what happened under Colonialism. I address this point to the way the CFC works now. Elsewhere, I have suggested that the CFC shift from its 1932 vision to a setup with strong provinces.
We have direct experience when two sides had equal representation. Both sides were "supposed to" nominate representatives who were objective, but only one side did so. The other side voted every issue cynically and won all the disputes. That's what happened in the USA-Canada border commissions.
Congratulations to the parties for an excellent agreement framework!
I don't see a formula for converting those $9 and $4 payments into governors. Quebec should have lots of governors. Taxation with representation is an important principle. It may seem expedient to shortcut that step, but look at what happened under Colonialism. I address this point to the way the CFC works now. Elsewhere, I have suggested that the CFC shift from its 1932 vision to a setup with strong provinces.
I asked the same question and apparently the FQE was not interested in having CFC Governors at this time. Quebec governors will continue to be elected by the rest of the Governors.
I asked the same question and apparently the FQE was not interested in having CFC Governors at this time. Quebec governors will continue to be elected by the rest of the Governors.
At the beginning of 2012, The Monarchy had surprising support in Quebec. Not as high as the rest of Canada, but still. Come this year with Jubilee and royal tours galore, support for The Monarchy went up--but it went down in Quebec. Could it be that, like The Monarchy, they view the CFC as a necessary evil, or a convenient fiction; something to be tolerated, but please don't remind me of it, please don't shove it in my face? The performance of choosing 5 or 25 CFC Governors every year would be just that, just as the dull (unless one is emotionally invested) royal media coverage became ennuyant.
The 1932 model of the CFC was that Governors leave their provincial ties at the door. In the hybrid future, one province will negotiate directly with the CFC on a well-defined menu of issues. The status quo didn't work; this might.
CFC to recognize separate FQE membership status in FIDE!! Worse still, an initial 3-year agreement giving the FQE separate, but equal, rights as all of the rest of Canada in the selection process of all Canadian representatives to all international chess events including the Olympiad, World Cup as well as FIDE Congresses will be ratified without any face to face meeting of the CFC.
This year the CFC has decided not to hold the usual Annual Meeting (AGM) of delegates of the federation. Instead, a virtual meeting will be held via the internet. This is the first time in history that a face to face meeting will not have been held. This also marks the first time ANY national chess federation in the world will do so.
This is particularly worrisome, since the FQE-CFC problem is an intriguing political maze that has defied solution for more than 30 years. Without adequate public discussion of the complex issues behind why the FQE has refused to be a member of the CFC, the current CFC president is hoping to pull off what is in effect a coup d'etat inside the Canadian chess community.
There is the question that the entire process is not only illegal but unconstitutional according to the CFC's own regulations. The CFC represents Canada to the world as a member of FIDE, the international chess body. As well, the CFC sends teams to the Chess Olympiad, World Youth Chess Championship, and other major international events. By now allowing the FQE an equal say in these issues--which no other provincial federation is allowed --and by recognizing the unique right of the FQE to represent ANY french-speaking player anywhere in Canada, the CFC is opening itself to law suits from any and every provincial chess federation.
There are numerous french-speaking communities outside of Quebec--numbering in the hundreds of thousands of Canadian citizens-- and this agreement recognizes the right of the FQE to represent their interests in chess! Has anyone involved in brokering this agreement even bothered to ask them?
Furthermore, any member of the FQE will have EXACTLY the same rights as every other member of the CFC (anywhere in Canada), and will only have to pay 9 dollars a year--which will be generously paid for by the FQE!. Adult members elsewhere in Canada have to pay anywhere between 35 and 40 dollars for the same rights.
All Canadian chess players will be losing if this deal gets ratified, as they will be in effect, subsidizing the FQE memberships while accepting to be 2nd class citizens in their own province! It is expected that sometime in the next 3 years , when the initial agreement will be up for re-negotiation, the CFC will have formally petitioned FIDE for separate FQE membership.
I will keep readers up to date as more information becomes available. Thus far the CFC and the FQE have made sparse the exact details of the deal. The whole deal smacks of pure pork barrel politics!
CFC to recognize separate FQE membership status in FIDE!! Worse still, an initial 3-year agreement giving the FQE separate, but equal, rights as all of the rest of Canada in the selection process of all Canadian representatives to all international chess events including the Olympiad, World Cup as well as FIDE Congresses will be ratified without any face to face meeting of the CFC.
This year the CFC has decided not to hold the usual Annual Meeting (AGM) of delegates of the federation. Instead, a virtual meeting will be held via the internet. This is the first time in history that a face to face meeting will not have been held. This also marks the first time ANY national chess federation in the world will do so.
This is particularly worrisome, since the FQE-CFC problem is an intriguing political maze that has defied solution for more than 30 years. Without adequate public discussion of the complex issues behind why the FQE has refused to be a member of the CFC, the current CFC president is hoping to pull off what is in effect a coup d'etat inside the Canadian chess community.
There is the question that the entire process is not only illegal but unconstitutional according to the CFC's own regulations. The CFC represents Canada to the world as a member of FIDE, the international chess body. As well, the CFC sends teams to the Chess Olympiad, World Youth Chess Championship, and other major international events. By now allowing the FQE an equal say in these issues--which no other provincial federation is allowed --and by recognizing the unique right of the FQE to represent ANY french-speaking player anywhere in Canada, the CFC is opening itself to law suits from any and every provincial chess federation.
There are numerous french-speaking communities outside of Quebec--numbering in the hundreds of thousands of Canadian citizens-- and this agreement recognizes the right of the FQE to represent their interests in chess! Has anyone involved in brokering this agreement even bothered to ask them?
Furthermore, any member of the FQE will have EXACTLY the same rights as every other member of the CFC (anywhere in Canada), and will only have to pay 9 dollars a year--which will be generously paid for by the FQE!. Adult members elsewhere in Canada have to pay anywhere between 35 and 40 dollars for the same rights.
All Canadian chess players will be losing if this deal gets ratified, as they will be in effect, subsidizing the FQE memberships while accepting to be 2nd class citizens in their own province! It is expected that sometime in the next 3 years , when the initial agreement will be up for re-negotiation, the CFC will have formally petitioned FIDE for separate FQE membership.
I will keep readers up to date as more information becomes available. Thus far the CFC and the FQE have made sparse the exact details of the deal. The whole deal smacks of pure pork barrel politics!
At least you ''forgot'' to include the very first sentence ;)
I don't think GM Spraggett really understood the deal...
The adults in the room have much to discuss. It would be best if we confined the discussion to the things that are actually contained in the agreement rather than the imaginative flights of fancy put forward by individuals clearly dominated by a compulsion to pay homage in their every action to the archetype of the trickster.
I don't think GM Spraggett really understood the deal...
On that we can agree completely. Kevin has got it all wrong. I wonder if he has read it. Still Spraggett happens to be right (for the opposite reasons!) on one thing : "all Canadian chess players will be losing if this deal gets ratified". This WIN-LOSE deal if ratified as is will soon turn sour into a LOSE-LOSE deal, as soon as a new FQE leadership with a backbone comes around, turning what was the current state of "live and let live" into an open conflict. This one sided deal needs fixing to save the good parts of it before it is too late. It is not true that the FQE will for ever be willing to serve 9$ per adult member and 4$ per junior member every year to the CFC on a silver platter, while the CFC does next to nothing in return that it is not already doing! Thinking differently is called wishful thinking.
It is not true that the FQE will for ever be willing to serve 9$ per adult member and 4$ per junior member every year to the CFC on a silver platter, while the CFC does next to nothing in return that it is not already doing!
Nice to see we are leading the way with our on line meetings. I've been to two live AGMs and four online meetings and the latter are far superior in just about every way I can think of - attendence, orderly process, time management, record keeping. The CFC/FQE deal can be debated just as well on line as face to face. This year especially, a poll indicated that only a dozen governors were planning to attend the AGM in Victoria whereas two or three times that many will be at the virtual meeting.
As a Quebec governor, I will attempt to make a summary of concerns/complaints/suggestions coming from the French discussion group(s) in time for the annual meeting.
I've been to two live AGMs and four online meetings and the latter are far superior in just about every way I can think of - attendence, orderly process, time management, record keeping. The CFC/FQE deal can be debated just as well on line as face to face.
I like to look at a person when they are giving reports, election speeches and making commitments and debating points. It tells me more than I can get from online message boards used for online meetings.
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