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Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
Coming from a junior's perspective, I find it both enjoyable, and beneficial playing an adult. For me, implementing a 'junior section' and an 'adult section' would ruin the tournament experience. Playing an adult gives the junior a a grand opportunity to play a man, or woman, that have played chess for far longer than ourselves, and perhaps learn a thing or two from them. Not only on the chessboard, but off the chessboard as well. That is, unless the adult is as disruptive, and unruly as John claims juniors are.
I agree with John that some juniors are known, and seen to misbehave, but there are some adults, if not more adults that do the same. If we are to reduce the circus acts going on at chess tournaments, we shouldn't separate the adults and juniors, but we need to ensure that the rules and obligations are known well by all players.
Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
Thanks John Brown for starting this interesting thread. I might be tempted to remove an adjective or two - Should unruly players be allowed to play in rated tournaments?
Everyone would benefit from understanding the rules better. In Moscow, Anand did not know that draw offers must be recorded on the scoresheet. At the 2011 World Cup, Sutovsky was one of the most rambunctious players I have ever seen.
When a disturbance occurs, the Arbiter has substantial discretion. Part of the decision to intervene or not is whether or not the cure is will be more disturbing than the incident itself - hence the tendancy for Arbiters to be reactive rather than proactive.
When I run kids tournaments, part of the tune up lesson includes several points of etiquette. I will make a point of incuding more such information at open events going forward.
Hi Vlad;
Have you ever seen a Kid try to lie. Well I have and so have their parents.
But just in case I have to be the go between, I'll make sure I have a
baseball bat and a chainsaw in my backpack to protect the TDs
Hopefully all this discussion will show the juniors ,teachers,coaches,parents and adults,
that being disruptive takes away from the fairness and respect of playing chess and will only bring
bad feelings and complaints.
Winning by cheap tricks are just that, tricks. Playing chess well is a skill.
That is what we should all strive for. A perfect well played game wilh no major distractions.
Do you consider these to be intelligent comments?
I'm saying the parent of the kid 'who can do no wrong' is going to start screaming at you that you are wrong to accuse Johnny of wrongdoing.
And if you try to explain in a reasonable way what the infraction was, the parent will scream even louder. What do you do then? Hmmmm???
Do you consider these to be intelligent comments?
I'm saying the parent of the kid 'who can do no wrong' is going to start screaming at you that you are wrong to accuse Johnny of wrongdoing.
And if you try to explain in a reasonable way what the infraction was, the parent will scream even louder. What do you do then? Hmmmm???
This is very very true, I've seen it happen a lot, and that's with teachers and principals who are highly trained professionals who know how to de-escalate conflicts.
Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
Just this week I was helping to teach a chess camp for CMA. It's the fifth chess camp I have taught this summer. Many of the kids at all the camps do not understand proper etiquette in chess, and unless it is mainly a byproduct of my getting older, they seem (on average) to be less polite. Even explaining the proper rules to them is met with a shrug or a "whatever".
This most recent camp saw one kid in the top section who simply could not be quiet during games. He got the boot to the second section. He apologized for his behaviour ... and of course started yapping again. He finished in the top three places in the tournament but instead of getting a medal got a dressing-down from yours truly.
Anyway, this sort of behaviour would be far less prevalent, at least in Ottawa, if:
- for all sections above 700 CMA clocks are mandatory (players should have to supply their own clock)
- for all sections above 700 CMA score keeping is mandatory
- for all sections above 500 CMA totally zero-tolerance with respect to talking especially on the opponent's move. Violate the policy, lose the game.
- anyone repeatedly offering draws is badgering the opponent. The only warning they get is before the tournament. After that, they lose.
As a coach it is difficult to teach kids the proper rules and then in things like the Ontario Chess Challenge have opponents repeatedly violate them - and not get punished, indeed even get rewarded for the behaviours. It sends kids the wrong message.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
I was in the shower, and it struck me. Does anyone else see the irony of discussing rude behaviour at the board on chesstalk? Chesstalk, where rudeness and insults are not just tolerated, but encouraged. Maybe the arbiters of chesstalk should............
With respect to draw offers, I find it rude when the opponent does not acknowledge a draw offer. A simple, "no thank you" or "let me think about it", IMHO should be the proper response. I realize that saying nothing and just making a move is considered an acceptable response by many, but I find it rude. I consider a non response tantamount to saying "your draw offer is not worthy of consideration, I will now crush you".?
I was in the shower, and it struck me. Does anyone else see the irony of discussing rude behaviour at the board on chesstalk? Chesstalk, where rudeness and insults are not just tolerated, but encouraged. Maybe the arbiters of chesstalk should............
With respect to draw offers, I find it rude when the opponent does not acknowledge a draw offer. A simple, "no thank you" or "let me think about it", IMHO should be the proper response. I realize that saying nothing and just making a move is considered an acceptable response by many, but I find it rude. I consider a non response tantamount to saying "your draw offer is not worthy of consideration, I will now crush you".?
Anybody with me?
1) Some people find drunkenness offensive but such behaviour would hardly be unusual in, say, a bar. Offensive behaviour is part of ChessTalk or parliament but not generally acceptable in say a chess tournament or church.
2) I normally acknowledge draw offers with "I'll think about it" unless they are offensive (say repeatedly offered or offered in obviously a really bad position). Since my hearing isn't the greatest, I do this in part so that I am sure my opponent was making the offer rather than mumbling something incoherent. ;-) I don't think it rude to refuse to acknowledge them.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Chesstalk, where rudeness and insults are not just tolerated, but encouraged. Maybe the arbiters of chesstalk should............
On the other hand, the official CFC message board is boring and uninteresting. Chess is the entertainment business and the CFC message board doesn't entertain me. :p
With respect to draw offers, I find it rude when the opponent does not acknowledge a draw offer. A simple, "no thank you" or "let me think about it", IMHO should be the proper response. I realize that saying nothing and just making a move is considered an acceptable response by many, but I find it rude. I consider a non response tantamount to saying "your draw offer is not worthy of consideration, I will now crush you".?
Anybody with me?
If the position is one where a draw offer is reasonable, then perhaps it could be rude to ignore it as you say, but I find it equally rude when someone offers me a draw in a position where I am clearly better. To those draw offers, I don't respond to send the exact message that "your draw offer is not worthy of consideration, I will now crush you."
but I find it equally rude when someone offers me a draw in a position where I am clearly better
Your opponent's evaluation of the position could be different (a lack of some chess strategic knowledge). Some other aspects - you are just bored and watch only a photo girl :)
A chess game is not a talk show, thus moving a piece is enough to decline an offer. However, the offer should be made clearly enough.
Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?
At the Paleochora tournament they made an announcement before one of the rounds that when the game ends you sign score sheets and shake your opponents hand, before and after. They warned that if there was a repeat of an incident that happened that it would not be tolerated. I don't know the incident they mentioned as I wasn't there but they certainly gave the clear message that it was not to happen again.
I still did have a junior offer me a draw several times but these days it doesn't really bother me.
Your opponent's evaluation of the position could be different (a lack of some chess strategic knowledge). Some other aspects - you are just bored and watch only a photo girl :)
A chess game is not a talk show, thus moving a piece is enough to decline an offer. However, the offer should be made clearly enough.
When a draw is offered a player should have a good look at the position to see why his opponent thinks he is losing. Of course, some times the position is a draw.
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Chesstalk, where rudeness and insults are not just tolerated, but encouraged. Maybe the arbiters of chesstalk should............
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